Calling a spade, a spade....

[Fu-Pow]

i would liek to see some evidence to back up that claim. i am not aying it isnt true but without any concrete proof i would think that is highly suspect.

Sorry, I actually misquoted my source for that. From "The Long Tail" by Chris Anderson:

"One study by IBM found that the mean repair time for damage in high-profile Wikipedia entries such as Islam is less than four minutes."

So for a less "high profile" entry like hand to hand combat its probably a bit longer.

[bakxierboxer]

In Japan, traditional rifle use is considered a martial art, albeit a very rare practice. If memory serves, the word they use for it is hojitsu.

Dang!
Ya mean to say that doesn't have anything to do with working a street-corner?

[neilhytholt]

In Japan, traditional rifle use is considered a martial art, albeit a very rare practice. If memory serves, the word they use for it is hojitsu. Archery and other traditional weapons fall under the martial arts umbrella too. We just ran an article on archery - The Missing Link: Archery in China By Tim Louie - in our 2007 March/April issue.

In the West, it's also considered a traditional 'martial art', if you want to call it that. Black powder rifles. My uncle was really into that for a while, along with Native American wrestling and knife and tomahawk fighting and throwing and archery.

[Chief Fox]

I bet your uncle was one of those guys who wore buckskin leather and all that.

Neil's Uncle

[neilhytholt]

I bet your uncle was one of those guys who wore buckskin leather and all that.

Neil's Uncle

Actually, no, that's more cold weather style. He didn't like clothes that much. He even ran around the woods for a while in a loincloth until the neighbors complained to the local police.

He did have a buckskin shirt though. Actually, wait, he had leggings too ... shirt and leggings.

He used to spend hours and hours in knife and axe throwing. I think that's one of the reasons his first wife divorced him.

[PangQuan]

your uncle didnt live in Bastrop Texas and go by the name "Wild Bill" by any chance did he?

[neilhytholt]

your uncle didnt live in Bastrop Texas and go by the name "Wild Bill" by any chance did he?

Nah, he lived in Northern California at that time. He used to hike around the woods in a loincloth and sandals, carrying a hiking stick to kill rattlers. He was in the yard skinning a deer, I think, in a loincloth and the neighbors called the cops. After that he mostly just wore regular shorts.

[The Willow Sword]

""Jeremia Johnson made his way in to the mountains,,bettin on forgettin all the troubles that he knew. The trail was straight and narrow,the eagle or the sparrow showed the path he was to follow,,,as it flew. A mountain man's a lonely man and he leaves alot behind, it ought to have been different but you often times will find, that the story never goes the way you had in mind, well Jeremia's story was that kind, Jeremia's story was that kind"""

hehehe "Jeremia Johnson" is one of my favorite movies of all time.


Peace, TWS

[Kung Pao]

What about spears, kwan dao's, and daggers? Spears and daggers, at least, can be used effectively as projectiles. And Kwan dao's are hardly hand-to-hand, right?

Who cares what labels are? Wu shu describes a warrior's art. It may not be relevant today, so much, and it is certainly watered down into a more cardiovascular/fitness oriented art, with much focus on aesthetics.......but its core is a martial art----an art of war. These are the same arts used on battlefields time and time again throughout eastern history. How is it not martial? It's not just hand-to-hand. Hell.....we might as well throw archery and horsemanship (or combinations of the two, as Asians were famed for [excellent horse archers]) into this debate, as well.

George Foreman once said Joe Frazier was the greatest man he ever met. Well, the two were sitting at dinner one night with the royal family. They were eating something fancy, lamb chops and mint sauce, and Joe Frazier asked the waiter: "Can I get some more green jelly?" The waiter asked: "Do you mean mint sauce?" Joe replied: "Same thing." See, the waiter knew what Joe wanted, but he asked him a question anyways to do what? If you know what you mean, who the hell cares what you call it?

It's been called wushu, it will be called wushu in the future. This is a needless semantic debate.

[Fu-Pow]

What about spears, kwan dao's, and daggers? Spears and daggers, at least, can be used effectively as projectiles. And Kwan dao's are hardly hand-to-hand, right?

Who cares what labels are? Wu shu describes a warrior's art. It may not be relevant today, so much, and it is certainly watered down into a more cardiovascular/fitness oriented art, with much focus on aesthetics.......but its core is a martial art----an art of war. These are the same arts used on battlefields time and time again throughout eastern history. How is it not martial? It's not just hand-to-hand. Hell.....we might as well throw archery and horsemanship (or combinations of the two, as Asians were famed for [excellent horse archers]) into this debate, as well.

George Foreman once said Joe Frazier was the greatest man he ever met. Well, the two were sitting at dinner one night with the royal family. They were eating something fancy, lamb chops and mint sauce, and Joe Frazier asked the waiter: "Can I get some more green jelly?" The waiter asked: "Do you mean mint sauce?" Joe replied: "Same thing." See, the waiter knew what Joe wanted, but he asked him a question anyways to do what? If you know what you mean, who the hell cares what you call it?

It's been called wushu, it will be called wushu in the future. This is a needless semantic debate.

I don't really understand your argument. Semantics are important. You start calling something an "art" and you leave it open to all kinds of interpretation, which leads to people that do and teach something other than something martial. "Hand to hand combat" is much more precise.

Kwan Dao's and spears would count as "hand to hand" by Wikipedia definition:

"Hand to hand combat (sometimes abbreviated as HTH or H2H) is a generic term for close quarters fighting, particularly when the outcome is likely to be fatal, as in mêlée military combat or a duel. This distinguishes it from combat sport. Usually the phrase "hand-to-hand" indicates unarmed combat or combat using improvised "field expedient" or muscle-powered weapons such as clubs or knives."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_to_hand_combat

Interesting though, for as many people that know a Kwan Dao or spear form how many people know how to use it in "hand to hand combat"?

Probably none.

FP

[SanHeChuan]

People will do what they want no matter what it's called, semantics offer no salvation.

[Fu-Pow]

People will do what they want no matter what it's called, semantics offer no salvation.

Not really true or politicians wouldn't care so much about how things are phrased, or hire speech writers or any of that business.

[SanHeChuan]

Yeah and people still ignore them.

[SanHeChuan]

I don't get how people used a spear in one hand with a shield in the other. It seems like it would be too easy to leverage it right out of their one hand.

Oh and you point seems to be out of place.

[Fu-Pow]

Oh....come on.....

Learning a form is not learning technique, I'll admit that. But it doesn't take world-class insight to glean a parry and thrust from a spear or kwan dao. La-na-cha.....the basics are the best. And the hand-to-hand label......that's just funny to me. A spear or kwan-dao offers close range, sure. But it can also cover a space of 5 feet. If you approach a novice, even he could stab you in the foot, and hamper your mobility. It's not rocket science.

See the bold part of the wikipedia quote.

Even then, a contemporary wushu player with a spear would be deadly. They know how to manipulate for quick strikes, in short and long range. Deadly fast, and deadly accurate.

Bull****.

The spear is the king of weapons. It has been in nearly every culture, far and wide. Africa, Asia, Greece, Rome........even European pikes, halberds, and spears.....

I throw out this bombshell......if you haven't engaged in combat with a sword or spear then you really don't know how to use it.