when a utopia fails

[Black Jack II]

This is what you live with when you are a subject and not a citizen. Maybe the UK should get around to banning children, I mean anyone can see how well it has worked out for them since banning firearms and now knives.

Fingerprinting children, massive dna bank, mandatory id cards, cameras watching everywhere, talk about a slippery slope to hell.

http://www.blackpooltoday.co.uk/View...1&SectionID=62

[Royal Dragon]

Why is the violence increasing there?

[Ben Gash]

Umm, knives aren't banned here, and nowhere in that article does it say they will be. Neither are identity cards compulsory (and in all likelihood probably won't be), and our DNA bank has substantially less content than the US equivalent. You need to stop visiting those Illinois militia websites man.
As for why violence is increasing? Difficult to say. There's been a big surge in "black on black" violence in the large cities, and again it's difficult to put a finger conclusively on why. In the last ten years there's been a big increase in kids just "hanging around" in large groups. This has led to a rising gang culture, which has then led to increased violence. There's also been a massive increase in the number of children being excluded from education for behavioural issues, which then feeds the problem, but is also indicative of it.
It's unpopular to say so at the highest level, but it's probably in large part due to the decline of our social norms. Families don't live together, people don't know their neighbours, and people don't feel any responsibility to one and other. However it seems to be a very complex and multi-layered issue.

[Black Jack II]

http://www.4rfv.co.uk/nationalnews.asp?id=59634

Heh....

Maybe I should of stated, if you use a knife for self defense in the UK you are going to be in for a wild ride....if you don't think its coming though

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/View...&SectionID=104

Knives
It's illegal for anyone under the age of 16 to buy a knife. Flick knives, butterfly knives and disguised knives (hidden in a belt or mobile phone etc) are illegal to everyone. Swiss Army knives are allowed, so long as the blade is under 7.62cm, however if any knife is used in a threatening way it becomes an offensive weapon. It's an offence to carry a knife in public, and you can face a penalty of two year's imprisonment and a £5,000 fine for doing so. If you're caught with a knife at school you could be sentenced to four years in jail.

[Ben Gash]

You'll be alright using a knife for self defence provided you're carrying it for a legal reason and you can demonstrate that the threat posed warranted it. You can carry a knife if you're using it for work, or you're transporting it from one place to another, or if you're using it for a sport such as diving. If you're carrying it for the purpose of self defence then that's illegal. Funnily enough, we try to discourage our citizens from stabbing each other.
Violent crime is low here, unless you're male aged 15-24 your chances of being a victim of violence are less than 1%. Your chances of being attacked with a weapon are substantially less again. There's not really a great need to carry any kind of weapon for self defence, and also carrying a weapon for said purpose has it's own inherent risk.

[Ben Gash]

The first link is not directly related to this discussion, and the second link is an editorial, not a news item.

[Black Jack II]

Funnily enough, we try to discourage our citizens from stabbing each other.

How is that working out for the UK....facts seem to speak different.

If you're carrying it for the purpose of self defence then that's illegal

God forbid someone wants to defend themselves from violence with violence.

Violent crime is low here

I have heard in a number of reports London now has a higher violent crime rate than NYC

There's not really a great need to carry any kind of weapon for self defence, and also carrying a weapon for said purpose has it's own inherent risk.

Sorry man, that just sounds like good old fashion style ignorance.

The first link is not directly related to this discussion,

Ah, yes it does. Why have a summit on violent crime, when the weapon of choice was banned ten freakin years ago. Shows there is a problem.

Here is a bit on the ID cards. Spain has them already. I really hope you don't get them. I hope I won't have to get one either for that matter.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6055964.html

[PangQuan]

that sucks.

i can carry a sword around if i want

[Kristoffer]

V for Vendetta, anyone?

[neilhytholt]

The rate of violent crime in the U.K. is pretty much the same as the U.S., and the murder rate is a lot lower, as is the incarceration rate.

If they wanted to lower it further they should just lock more people up.

[Black Jack II]

This is from the U.N's crime research lab.

A UNITED Nations report has labelled Scotland the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America. England and Wales recorded the second highest number of violent assaults while Northern Ireland recorded the fewest.

The study, based on telephone interviews with victims of crime in 21 countries, found that more than 2,000 Scots were attacked every week, almost ten times the official police figures. They include non-sexual crimes of violence and serious assaults

[Chief Fox]

There's been a big surge in "black on black" violence in the large cities, and again it's difficult to put a finger conclusively on why. In the last ten years there's been a big increase in kids just "hanging around" in large groups. This has led to a rising gang culture, which has then led to increased violence. There's also been a massive increase in the number of children being excluded from education for behavioural issues, which then feeds the problem, but is also indicative of it.

Sounds a lot like the good ol' USA if you ask me.

[Black Jack II]

Here is more info on knife banning. This time its taken to the next step of retardation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

[neilhytholt]

This is from the U.N's crime research lab.

A UNITED Nations report has labelled Scotland the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America. England and Wales recorded the second highest number of violent assaults while Northern Ireland recorded the fewest.

The study, based on telephone interviews with victims of crime in 21 countries, found that more than 2,000 Scots were attacked every week, almost ten times the official police figures. They include non-sexual crimes of violence and serious assaults

??? If you look at the stats for England/Wales didn't look that bad. Maybe they don't report it? According to this the U.S. is a lot higher, 20 violent crimes per 1000 people. Add in the 5 or so with the rest from the U.K. it seems lower.

Also, the incarceration rate in the U.S. is like 5x higher than the U.K. per population.

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/to...3=0&sub=0&v=36

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm
"rape, robbery, aggravated and simple assault, and
homicide."

[Black Jack II]

We have more people, we are looking at percentages.

So of course we will have more peeps locked up.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/cri...icle340224.ece