What kung fu reminds me of...

[Iron_Eagle_76]

To a certain degree I will agree with the analogy that F Monkey is using. In college you take an intro course which is basically an outline of a particular subject. Nothing is studied in great depth, just the basic facts so to speak. If you look around the class, most people are there because they have to be. Fast forward to a more advanced course on the subject and you will find far fewer students but the ones there for the most part are serious and show some kind of interest in what they are learning. Martial arts is similiar to this, many start and want a basic understanding of self defense or fighting. When they realize it takes time, hard work, and dedication, they quit. The ones left are the serious students who have the dedication. Style and functionality are left as the key aspects as to whether or not the dedicated student wasted his/her time or not. Someone who is dedicated and trains hard can still suck if 1. What they were taught was crap or 2. They do not have some natural ability to absorb what they were taught.

[rogue]

not my experience. the SCA group round here wouldn't let me spar with them unless I had all the armor built as they specified. I told them 'don't you read your D&D books well enough...MONKS don't wear armor!

I tried for years to get this one guy to spar with me and told him he could use whatever weapon he wanted (didn't matter much...they were all rattan of different lengths) and I would just use my bear hands and if he hit me hard enough to knock me down, he won if I could knock him down, he won.

Ummm Oso, we might want to rethink your strategy.

[Royal Dragon]

Oso,
The Group in Chicago said so long as I was useing one of the sparring weapons (Hard foam, like the kind our headgear is made from), I could jump in and fight with them any time I wanted.

[WinterPalm]

I would say that I have to respectfully disagree with some of the stuff that was well-thought out, and disrespectfully disagree with the medeval reinactment stuff.

First off, if you are not sparring at a high intensity, whatever that means, you are not training properly.
If you are not drilling and drilling, and drilling some more, you are not training properly.
Forms are important and very necessary for developing kung fu skill...but not to the exclusion of everything else. They contain many good applicable methods of physical and mental preperation including agility and coordination...yes there are other ways to train this, that is not the point.

I would say that your first couple years of training, if done daily and with great intent, is like the first couple of years of college/university. Then, as you get to the upper level classes, say third year and honours classes, you start to get very specialized and integrated knowledge and skills that carry over to the earlier basics you learned....it is also worth noting that there are very few people in your class of 10 that started in first year survey courses of 200+. Kung fu is like this as well.

Kung Fu is for combative purposes first and foremost. The weapons are good training but not something you will use in the street more than likely. You are better off doing empty hand sparring or against someone else with a weapon.

F-Monkey, you are 100% right...you need a great teacher to help you and then you have to dig deep down to see if you have the ability to continually learn and apply and be a great student...that is the goal to me. Without great teachers and great students, where can one learn? If you are no good it might be your teacher but it might be you as well...or maybe a mixture.

That said, there is a point of diminishing returns where all your extra effort and work is not balanced by proper guidance and training, that is another thing altogether.

I think a more critical issue might be that since Kung Fu is surrounded by an ethics of non-violence, many have slacked in their preparation for violence which leads to sloppy or unable kung fu guys.

[Fu-Pow]

I think that there is a crowd within the kung fu community that bears a striking resemblance to the SCA people. Same mindset, different culture...one west the other east.

You know the type I'm talking about. They show up at tournaments in there full Chinese middle ages regalia. They compete the hell out of the forms competition.

Sparring starts......*crickets chirping*...hey where'd everyone go? They looked so tough in there silk jammies with their old school weapons.


FP

[neilhytholt]

Well, fighting in tournaments isn't safe in terms of disease.

You're getting hit with gloves that other people got hit by and who knows what diseases they have.

I wouldn't compete in sparring tournaments anymore just because it's not hygienic.

[WinterPalm]

Fu-Pow,

Maybe I was a bit universalist in what I said...but I know exactly what you are talking about. I see the guys wearing the crazy robes and getups, etc, and pretending to be Chinese (that Asia-phile issue is a whole other thread) or what they think is Chinese.
I suppose if that is what they want and they understand it is showmanship and not for combat purposes...

[neilhytholt]

Fu-Pow,

Maybe I was a bit universalist in what I said...but I know exactly what you are talking about. I see the guys wearing the crazy robes and getups, etc, and pretending to be Chinese (that Asia-phile issue is a whole other thread) or what they think is Chinese.
I suppose if that is what they want and they understand it is showmanship and not for combat purposes...

Well, they need to be safer in terms of diseases at tournaments for sparring. In pro matches they test the combatants for diseases, but not sparring tournaments.

It would be a good start if they'd have disposable single use covers for gloves and foot gear.

[Fu-Pow]

Fu-Pow,

Maybe I was a bit universalist in what I said...but I know exactly what you are talking about. I see the guys wearing the crazy robes and getups, etc, and pretending to be Chinese (that Asia-phile issue is a whole other thread) or what they think is Chinese.
I suppose if that is what they want and they understand it is showmanship and not for combat purposes...

It would be fine if that's what they thought but I think they seriously delude themselves into thinking that they are "too deadly" to use their skills or that sparring is somehow beneath them.

Quite frankly I'm at the point if I go to tournament I wouldn't even do forms competition. It's a laughable exercise. I've often been "judged" by karate guys way younger than me. It's like having a underage diving judge judging the gymnastic competition at the olympics.

Lol at the asiaphile issue. You're right that's a whole other thread. It'd be like if a bunch of asian dudes showed up at an SCA convention and started wearing medieval armor and speaking with a english accent. Who knows...maybe that's not so far fetched.

Just to be fair there is all kind of delusion in the martial arts, its not just the "forms warriors." There is delusion in MMA too, the delusion that sport H2H=street H2H for example.

[MasterKiller]

I think that there is a crowd within the kung fu community that bears a striking resemblance to the SCA people. Same mindset, different culture...one west the other east.

You know the type I'm talking about. They show up at tournaments in there full Chinese middle ages regalia. They compete the hell out of the forms competition.

Sparring starts......*crickets chirping*...hey where'd everyone go? They looked so tough in there silk jammies with their old school weapons.


FP

I was cracking up at Taiji Legacy last year because one of the spectators was walking around with a Chinese flute strapped to his back.

KUng Fu tournaments are like a mix between comic book conventions, LARP, and fight nights.

[PangQuan]

i remember a tourney i went to with some friends. one of my friends was performing his kwan dao set for a few judges, he messed up in the middle and just freestyled the rest of the form. completely made up.

he got a perfect score......

took the 2nd place under another friend who got first for doing a dao set. which he screwed up on and made up too.

both routines were new to each guy but they decided to do them anyway.


they took 1st and second which i thought was totally funny.

but it goes to show you, forms comps dont really mean much

[neilhytholt]

It would be fine if that's what they thought but I think they seriously delude themselves into thinking that they are "too deadly" to use their skills or that sparring is somehow beneath them.

Sparring at tournaments just isn't hygienic. Probably in most classes it's not hygienic either. And with big puffy gloves there's not much point anyway.

Lol at the asiaphile issue. You're right that's a whole other thread. It'd be like if a bunch of asian dudes showed up at an SCA convention and started wearing medieval armor and speaking with a english accent. Who knows...maybe that's not so far fetched.

They DO go to SCA conventions. I've only been to a couple that I happened across by accident at colleges, but there were Asian guys with fake accents and there were Asian guys with Mongolian style clothes and non-Asians with Chinese style clothes.

Those SCA guys when they spar with their weapons they DO go hard. They even break their armor and their weapons a lot of the time, at least the ones I went to. Of course some people build their own armor and use sparring weapons.

[PangQuan]

the SCA stuff goes both ways.

you will find people who are simply interested in midevil style fighting and need an outlet to get their game on.

then you get the people who want to live in a fantasy land and pretend they are knights.

same with kungfu.....or anything else for that matter.



It takes all kinds.

[neilhytholt]

the SCA stuff goes both ways.

you will find people who are simply interested in midevil style fighting and need an outlet to get their game on.

then you get the people who want to live in a fantasy land and pretend they are knights.

same with kungfu.....or anything else for that matter.

It takes all kinds.

SCA is not just about dressing up as a warrior and stuff. They also have people who dress up as bartenders, barmaids, wenches, you name it.

A girl I met once said she went to them and played a wench because she got free drinks and free sex ... I told her you're supposed to get paid if you're a wench but she said she got paid in beer.

[Becca]

... If you did not understand my thread, you could has asked.

No he couldn't. that would take all the point out of his trolling.