chinese strength training

[Dale Dugas]

Steve Cotter is a hsing yi/bagua man who also does KB. Look up his stuff as he goes through alot of training for the kung fu man.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Ford Prefect]

The funniest thing about this thread is that Chinese Strength Training will probably be the next biggest thing in the professional strength training community such as athletic trainers for professional, high-level collegiate, and olympic athletes. When the Iron Curtain was coming down and major scientists were defecting from Russia, Soviet training revolutionized the way most of our upper-tier athletes are trained.

I can see the same thing happening in China. Once the flow of information starts, we'll start seeing how they train to remain dominant in events like olympic weight lifting, gymnastics, diving, and I wouldn't be surprised if they emerge as forces in wrestling and track events. In 20 years instead of Pavel Tsatsouline, you'll have Hu Flung Pu dumbing down all the super secret Chinese training methods from complex strength-training texts for public consumption.

The funny thing is that is will be firmly based on science and modern training methods like powermetrics, accumulated kinetic energy, and good old weight lifting.

[northernArts]

Steve Cotter is a hsing yi/bagua man who also does KB. Look up his stuff as he goes through alot of training for the kung fu man.

In Boston,
Dale Dugas

I noticed those DVDs but didn't know what to think. Are they really good? What does he do differently?

[IronFist]

What is "Muscle Restructure?"

[IronFist]

The funniest thing about this thread is that Chinese Strength Training will probably be the next biggest thing in the professional strength training community such as athletic trainers for professional, high-level collegiate, and olympic athletes. When the Iron Curtain was coming down and major scientists were defecting from Russia, Soviet training revolutionized the way most of our upper-tier athletes are trained.

I can see the same thing happening in China. Once the flow of information starts, we'll start seeing how they train to remain dominant in events like olympic weight lifting, gymnastics, diving, and I wouldn't be surprised if they emerge as forces in wrestling and track events. In 20 years instead of Pavel Tsatsouline, you'll have Hu Flung Pu dumbing down all the super secret Chinese training methods from complex strength-training texts for public consumption.

The funny thing is that is will be firmly based on science and modern training methods like powermetrics, accumulated kinetic energy, and good old weight lifting.

Yeah, but it won't be long periods of stance training.

[SevenStar]

It might be. stance training is great for building leg strength...

[Ho Chun]

What is "Muscle Restructure?"

Muscle Restructure, is the set of exercises that the Indian Monk Da Mo, brought to the Shaolin Temple. It's a series of 12 exercises that are perform with full tension. They are awesome.

Hope this helps,

Steve

[Ford Prefect]

Delibandit,

You're mistake lies in thinking that none of us practice or have practiced stance training and are not fully familiar with it. Also, there has been much experiementation and study on stance-training type exercises and their physiological effects on the human body.

[Ford Prefect]

Well, it is for the vast majority of training goals. Strance training has its place in an art and can help build fundemental levels of strength, but anything passed that would better be addressed with other means.

[Ho Chun]

Delibandit,

You're mistake lies in thinking that none of us practice or have practiced stance training and are not fully familiar with it. Also, there has been much experiementation and study on stance-training type exercises and their physiological effects on the human body.

I have to ask...what are the physiological effects on the human body? Is there a website that has this information? I am curious.

Thanks,
Steve

[Samurai Jack]

What is "Muscle Restructure?"

You would know it as the "Muscle / Tendon Change" set from Shaolin.

[Ford Prefect]

Steve,

For people with strength training experience or experience in stance training, it is a very low-level muscular contraction. For those just starting out, it can be mid-level. Imagine when you first started out and had a tough time holding the horse for a minute, or had trouble holding each stance in an 8-stance set for 8 seconds each. For these people, the energy to contract their muscles to remain in the stance comes from the "anaerobic" energy system. This is the same energy system that weight lifters use. The more practiced you become at stance, the more strength you gain, and the higher your anaerobic threshold.

Because of this after a beginner spends a few months of dilligent practice, stance training begins using the aerobic pathways. This is the same pathway used when running a marathon or doing anything steadily over a long duration. While on the surface, this may sound great, it really isn't. Fighting is mostly anaerobic in nature. You want to be doing things that is focussed on that. It's not as if you should abondon stances altogether, but you should recognize their limitations and use other methods to fill the gaps.

Also, the strength gained from stance training is isometric in nature. This means that strength improvements are experience only in the exact angle of flexion and with 15 degrees in each direction. It does not give you strength through a large range of motion.

[ElPietro]

I think it's funny that stance training gets dismissed so easily and that weight lifting is thought to be the modern replacement.

Stance training and weight lifting yield different results. Stance training builds strength, but not like weight lifting. The muscle will get stronger, but not as big as weighted excercise. However, that said, the muscle to mind connection gets stronger (if you do it properly, you have some internal concetration components that are part of that training).

These statements are pretty much based on poor assumptions.

Why do people think that weight training means automatically getting bigger?

Stance training will buid strength only for a little while, and then that's it. The only way to get stronger, is to hold onto something heavy. Do you do this? Maybe, but then you are practicing resistance training now aren't you? If you don't add further resistance, you aren't getting stronger, you are simply increasing your endurance to hold that stance. This is entirely different. But perhaps if that's what you want to achieve then it's a good way to do it. But if you want to get stronger legs, you must train with progressive resistance, not progressive time. If anything, doing this for prolonged periods will actually WEAKEN your legs.

You can easily get stronger without ever gaining a pound of extra weight. A muscle doesn't need to get big to get strong, and there are many methods of getting stronger without getting bigger in the gym.

Also it's a myth that a bigger muscle is less flexible anyway, and unless taken to the extreme, will usually result in the exact opposite.

I'm sure that these "time tested" methods work in their own way, but it's funny to say people dismiss something that is ancient and out-dated, versus those that dismiss something that is modern, and progressive.

In summary, I do not ride a horse to work, I drive my car.

[ElPietro]

Is your internal force that part where you put your hands together, scream "hadoken" and shoot off a fireball at your opponent?

[Samurai Jack]

I just got the book Gene recommended called "72 Consumate Arts Secrets of the Shaolin Temple". Many of the exercises are weight training exercises anyone on this forum would recognize. Those that aren't are simply boxing or conditioning exercises that most athletes would recognize i.e. medicine ball etc. Okay, theres like four weird "magic" ones, but the rest of it's sound.

For example:

Thousand Caddies Flood gate Chi Kung = Progessive Sumo Deadlifts

Pot Lifting Art = Wrist Roller

Lying Tiger Chi Kung = Pushups

Soft Bone Art = Stretching / Yoga

Key Stone Art and Frog Art = Kettle Bell swings

I really liked the Shaolin Master's Comments about deadlifts:

"Outwardly (it appears) that the art is the practice of lifting and supporting weight with the fingers and palms; actually it's the training of the three parts of the body (Legs, torso, and arms). Not only will one astonish all with his great arm strength, but also have great power all over his body."

Shaolin was ahead of it's time. I'll just have to remember this next time an uninformed martial-artist tells me weight training is conter-productive.