chinese strength training

[Fu-Pow]

Steve,

For people with strength training experience or experience in stance training, it is a very low-level muscular contraction. For those just starting out, it can be mid-level. Imagine when you first started out and had a tough time holding the horse for a minute, or had trouble holding each stance in an 8-stance set for 8 seconds each. For these people, the energy to contract their muscles to remain in the stance comes from the "anaerobic" energy system. This is the same energy system that weight lifters use. The more practiced you become at stance, the more strength you gain, and the higher your anaerobic threshold.

Because of this after a beginner spends a few months of dilligent practice, stance training begins using the aerobic pathways. This is the same pathway used when running a marathon or doing anything steadily over a long duration. While on the surface, this may sound great, it really isn't. Fighting is mostly anaerobic in nature. You want to be doing things that is focussed on that. It's not as if you should abondon stances altogether, but you should recognize their limitations and use other methods to fill the gaps.

Also, the strength gained from stance training is isometric in nature. This means that strength improvements are experience only in the exact angle of flexion and with 15 degrees in each direction. It does not give you strength through a large range of motion.

It seems that your assumption is that static stance training is an end in and of itself. (Granted for those that brag about the 1/2 hour horse stances it is.)

The fundamental stance training is done so that one has the minimum strength requirement to execute the forms. The forms (at least in the styles that I've practiced) utilize stances that have a wider range of motion than the 15 degress you mentioned. In addition they could be considered plyometric in that you are required to offset the effect of gravity and explode into the next movement.

The other thing to consider about stances is that they are not designed just to make your leg strongs but to train you to utilize only the muscles that are necessary to hold you up.

In an art like Taiji very little muscle is utilized so having "strong" legs is pretty meaningless, unless their strong in the "right way."

My point is that while I believe in weight lifting to some extent (mostly to keep tone in underultiized muscles) if your forms move you vigorously through different levels, jumps, kneeling etc (depends on style) you should get more than enough of a leg workout and you'd be better off to practice your forms rather than practice something less direct to kung fu.

Depends on what your goal is though, master your art or move more weight around.

[Dale Dugas]

I agree with Fu Pao, moving and working with your forms helps develop the routes and strength needed to make them work. I added a weight vest and shot puts in my hands to my Bagua training and I have gotten much stronger as well as being more rooted and able to unroot others who ignore their lower body training. The shots are held(10 pounds) and I work through my palm changes with them slowly. feed all the tension down into my feet and into the ground, where I could call it back up and issue it into an enemy.


In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Fu-Pow]

I agree with Fu Pao, moving and working with your forms helps develop the routes and strength needed to make them work. I added a weight vest and shot puts in my hands to my Bagua training and I have gotten much stronger as well as being more rooted and able to unroot others who ignore their lower body training. The shots are held(10 pounds) and I work through my palm changes with them slowly. feed all the tension down into my feet and into the ground, where I could call it back up and issue it into an enemy.


In Boston,

Dale Dugas

Yeah I think a weight vest would work great, provided that you already have layed the ground work for proper structural alignment and execution of the techniques in the form.

Just to give you an idea of where I'm coming from this is usually how I train at Gold's Gym. Everything I do is 1 set at about 10-15 reps as fast as I can with good form. I go 2x through the circuit.


Dumbell flyes at 45 degree angle
Assisted Wide Grip Pull Ups
Tricep Cable Pull Downs
Knee Raises
Leaning Horse Stance (side to side with 35 lb weight)
Calf Raises
Burpees with a Push Up at the end
Standing Cable Rows
Cable machine shoulder exercise

I don't take any break between exercises and it takes me about 1/2 hr to go through the circuit twice.

I designed this workout to maximize natural push/pull rotational movement, to be executed from a standing position when possible, to keep my heart rate up to burn fat and to tone muscles that might be neglected through normal training.

I think circuit training is probably the best supplement that you can do to your kung fu training. It keeps you trim and builds strength and endurance without overtraining certain muscles groups that could potentially interfere with your martial arts program .

The keys when designing such a program are:

1) Stand up position as much as possible

2) Maximize natural movements

3) Use body weight when possible

4) Move through the circuit quickly to keep your heart rate up.

In addition:

5) Utilize plyometrics in body weight exercises for explosiveness if it is safe to do so.

[Samurai Jack]

I'm incorperating the ideas from the Shaolin manual into my deadlfit routine. I'm going to be performing one low-rep set, five days a week, and throw a little bit of weight on the bar every week. Instead of starting off with a light weight and working up ten pounds a day ala PTP, I'll be starting close to my one rep max and put only 2 1/2 pounds a week on the bar. I'm considering using singles or triples for this routine. Any comments?

[_William_]

A problem I see with your routine is that you are doing the same amount of work, every day, for a week. Then the next week is exactly the same but with 2.5lbs more. Not much room for variation and IMO little adaptation.

I would do something like Steve Justa's routine. I don't remember exactly how it goes, but here is the gist of it.

Start out doing 3 singles. Add a single each day, until you reach a set goal of perhaps 15 singles. Add weight, and start off with 3 singles again, etc.

[Vasquez]

I'm incorperating the ideas from the Shaolin manual into my deadlfit routine. I'm going to be performing one low-rep set, five days a week, and throw a little bit of weight on the bar every week. Instead of starting off with a light weight and working up ten pounds a day ala PTP, I'll be starting close to my one rep max and put only 2 1/2 pounds a week on the bar. I'm considering using singles or triples for this routine. Any comments?

.....like a monk?

[Dale Dugas]

V is rather limited in his vocabulary as well as training experience. Ignore him as the little bug he truly is.



Fu Pao,

Always should you have basic structure training under your sash before you go out and add weight to any movement. I forgot that some people think you can just up poundage without that consideration. Shot puts in your palms help me to better focus my intent on walking as im slowly walking a circle(im one of those bagua guys) performing palm changes. the puts will pull me off if im off my frame in the littlest. Great help for me.

In Boston

[K.Brazier]

Delibandit,
I like your writing on holding the stance.
Kevin

[Samurai Jack]

Dale, have you tried the NWW muscle / tendon change tape? I learned this exercise set years ago, but I'm a little rusty on it. Is it any good?

[Dale Dugas]

They have two sets restructure one and two. One is on tape that he is selling now. Its a decent upper body workout. I like it and it has ripped me up and helped me lose fat and get harder. Nothing wrong with that.

Dale

[IronFist]

I'm incorperating the ideas from the Shaolin manual into my deadlfit routine. I'm going to be performing one low-rep set, five days a week, and throw a little bit of weight on the bar every week. Instead of starting off with a light weight and working up ten pounds a day ala PTP, I'll be starting close to my one rep max and put only 2 1/2 pounds a week on the bar. I'm considering using singles or triples for this routine. Any comments?

Sounds like you might hit CNS fatigue pretty quickly, depending on how close to your 1RM you start. I'd get enough sleep each night, too. 1RM sets are hard to do if you're not feeling aweosme that day. Keep us posted, tho.

If I were doing it I would start well below my 1RM, or maybe do a two week cycle of PTP first, take 3-5 days off, and THEN do what you suggested.

[Samurai Jack]

Thanks for the tips. I'll let everyone know how t goes. It feels really good to be doing heavy singles after all the high-rep stuff I was doing. So far, so good.

[IronFist]

^ Ever notice how it doesn't feel really good to do high rep stuff after doing singles for a while?

[iron tiger]

What is "Muscle Restructure?"

You would know it as the "Muscle / Tendon Change" set

aka the "Muscle Change Classic," pts 1 & 2

stance training

Holding deep stances for extended periods also has a stimulating effect on the body's internal energy (ie 'chi'), in addition to the leg strengthening/positive influence on maneuvering.

[Fu-Pow]

Holding deep stances for extended periods also has a stimulating effect on the body's internal energy (ie 'chi'), in addition to the leg strengthening/positive influence on maneuvering.

I would think that standing meditation would have more of that effect than holding low stances....