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Thread: Obese Sifu?

  1. #16
    My m.a. teacher is pretty big but he is rock solid, he let us poke his ribs and abdomen for proof

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Li Kao View Post
    Not that he is a professional fighter or sifu, but another good example would be Sammo Hung -- he has always amazed me that a guy his size could move the way he does, even to this day.
    Exactly, that guy could move. But imagine how much faster he would have moved if he shed some pounds and put some more time in physically conditioning.

    You can be in great condition yet be overweight. But it means that you're also giving a little in the way of discipline, either not conditioning much, or eating irresponsibly. Either way, fif you're a sifu, that's a bad precedent to set.

    I firmly believe this, especially as conditioning is part of kung fu's appeal nowadays. You don't have to be a male model, buy you shouldn't be overweight unless you have physical injuries that prevent this.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kung Pao View Post
    Exactly, that guy could move. But imagine how much faster he would have moved if he shed some pounds and put some more time in physically conditioning.

    You can be in great condition yet be overweight. But it means that you're also giving a little in the way of discipline, either not conditioning much, or eating irresponsibly. Either way, fif you're a sifu, that's a bad precedent to set.

    I firmly believe this, especially as conditioning is part of kung fu's appeal nowadays. You don't have to be a male model, buy you shouldn't be overweight unless you have physical injuries that prevent this.
    In some other countries like Africa, China and India, being overweight isn't considered a bad thing. It means you have enough food to eat.

    Actually, more than enough, so it's kindof a status symbol in a way.
    Last edited by neilhytholt; 04-08-2007 at 08:20 PM.

  4. #19
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    I tend to be skeptical of an instructor that is overweight. A few pounds sure. A spare tire, maybe. But overweight. Come on!!! If you just do all your forms, from white to your current rank, 3X a week. You should be able to maintain your weight. Watch what you eat and you should be able to lose weight. If an instructor works out with his class instead of walking around with his/her arms crossed, or sitting in his/her office and letting others teach his/her class, he/she should be in pretty decent shape. There is no excuse. An instructor needs to set an example.
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  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kung Pao View Post
    Exactly, that guy could move. But imagine how much faster he would have moved if he shed some pounds and put some more time in physically conditioning.

    You can be in great condition yet be overweight. But it means that you're also giving a little in the way of discipline, either not conditioning much, or eating irresponsibly. Either way, fif you're a sifu, that's a bad precedent to set.

    I firmly believe this, especially as conditioning is part of kung fu's appeal nowadays. You don't have to be a male model, buy you shouldn't be overweight unless you have physical injuries that prevent this.
    It doesn't set a bad precedent. Actually, it helps. Look at the way you guys talk about masters and sifu on this forum - like they are gods. I've been to schools where they are seen as such as well. they are supposed to be this, they are supposed to be that, they've never heard about a fight he'd lost, etc... an overweight sifu shows that no, they aren't perfect - nothing wrong with that. If he was overweight AND he sucked - then he would be setting a bad precedent, IMO.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

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  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by xcakid View Post
    I tend to be skeptical of an instructor that is overweight. A few pounds sure. A spare tire, maybe. But overweight. Come on!!! If you just do all your forms, from white to your current rank, 3X a week. You should be able to maintain your weight. Watch what you eat and you should be able to lose weight. If an instructor works out with his class instead of walking around with his/her arms crossed, or sitting in his/her office and letting others teach his/her class, he/she should be in pretty decent shape. There is no excuse. An instructor needs to set an example.
    Same thing I said above - fitness is not the example - fighting is. Now, if we were talking about personal trainers, I would not train under an obese one. But for martial arts, the example is fighting. Foreman is overweight, but he could be my boxing coach any day.

    As an instructor, I can say that it is hard working out with the class. I do warm ups with them and work in when we spar - but it's sometimes hard to do the drilling with them, because you have to watch everyone so you can make corrections. you can rotate every few rounds, but we don't always do partner rotation when drilling. that said, I have to train outside of class to keep in shape - but not everyone has that kind of time. you used to have your own school, so you should know this.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Fox View Post
    Overweight or stocky IMO is acceptable. Obese is NOT!

    Why?

    Several reasons.
    1. it's irresposible and just plain unhealthy. I don't care how fast they can move or how powerful they are.

    2. Many kung fu schools have (should have) rigorous training programs and the sifu should hold himself to the same standards.

    3. Kung fu is more than just a way to fight. It's a life style. Being obese isn't a part of that life style.

    4. A sifu should set a good example for their students. Being obese is NOT a good example.

    All that being said. Many sifu are older males. It's a fact that when when males get older their metabolism slows and they develop fat around the belly. IMO, this is 100% acceptable.

    Just my $0.02.
    I totally agree Chief Fox

  8. #23
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    I agree that a sifu should be fit. People take martial arts for a lot of reasons but physical fitness is probably the most common.

    I can see how getting obese could easily happen to an instructor. After expending my energy to get a less than motivated student to work out, I have a hard time finding motivation to work out myself.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceSteveRoy View Post
    what if they are samoan? i hear that culturally being bigger is better. of course i could be wrong but i recall hearing that somewhere. should there study of martial arts conflict with their societal norms? not stating opinion here just playing devil's advocate.
    Nice to see real reasoning begin to flourish.
    Of course culture has a lot to do with it there are man people that are genetically bigger in more ways than one.

    WHo sets the standard for acceptable size? those ridiculous models that starve themselves and spend hours in the gym working on enhancing individual muscles but have no functional strength.

    I think the somoan quote is perfect, as well as mongolian or northern Chinese.

    Or what about those huge swedes? or ICelander's are they unacceptable because they do not fit a models childish view of the perfect body?

    I venture to say many on here would last less than a second with an oversized Russian or Mandarin Wrestler

    For what its worth

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Iman01 View Post
    People take martial arts for a lot of reasons but physical fitness is probably the most common.
    yeah, that's one of life's little paradoxes.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  11. #26
    Peronaly I've played sports and had that fat a$$ coach, Run this... squat that...Bench this. And I've also had coaches that tell you the same and actually do the work out with you. I've noticed these people tend to get people to push themselves harder and get more respect from thir players / students.

    To me its the same with healthcare, wouldn't go to a fat, drinking, smoking doctor
    or personal trainer, or massage therapist.

    Wouldn't train with lazy, undiciplined, out of shape sifu.
    "All the skill in the world won't hold up to a real confrontation if you are too afraid to use it."

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    As an instructor, I can say that it is hard working out with the class. I do warm ups with them and work in when we spar - but it's sometimes hard to do the drilling with them, because you have to watch everyone so you can make corrections. you can rotate every few rounds, but we don't always do partner rotation when drilling.
    Good point. I know exactly what you mean, but it sounds like when you're not making corrections you join in.
    "All the skill in the world won't hold up to a real confrontation if you are too afraid to use it."

  13. #28
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    I have do not have a problem from learning martial arts from "fat" instructors. If they can teach you and you can learn something good from him or her, than I do not see what is the problem. Would you take his or her dietary advice? Mmm I do not think so...
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  14. #29
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    i will always remember my first kung fu teacher.

    while we were in stances, or practicing our forms on our own or doing two man drills

    often times he was just lying on the floor doing sit ups or some such.

    got a tummy? well instead of standing there watching or going in another room, watch AND work out.

    of course this is the kind of guy who regularly runs 10 miles does more than a thousand sit ups each day, swims several miles etc....

    a true model of physical fitness.

    most begining students can only be so lucky to find someone as serious as to take thier fighting art to the level of personal perfection and settling for no less.

    hell, ive seen students who demonstrate better physical awareness than many teachers do.

    i think at some point it gets more difficult with age to keep it up, many people say "meh, i can still do the moves and have power"

    so they get lazy and stop doing a thousand sit ups a day.

    its thier loss, and sometimes thier students as well.

    i was fortunate to build my kungfu foundation under someone who expected the best you had to offern and would not settle for less.
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  15. #30
    I remember one of my shixiong in Taiwan was a pretty fat dude, but he could move very fast and kick gracefully up over his head, but I don't really have any idea of his cardio conditioning as I never really saw him go all out for more than a minute or so. A great Bagua guy named Wang Ju Shin (i think that was his name) was pretty fat and was reputed to have great skill.

    It is one thing to have power and be able fight like a bat out of he11 for a couple of minutes and quite another to have a good cardio level and can roll on the matt for a while.

    I would want to see this fat shifu's skill and movement and then I would decide to learn from him. I, personally, would be more inclined to want to train under someone who is fit (sorely lacking in the CMA community) and can back it up. That said, I was proud when I attended a MA tourney and saw that my 50-year-old shifu was the fittest guy in the building.
    "If you practice praying mantis, women will like you."--Shi Zheng-Zhong

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