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Thread: The Role Of Stance trainning....

  1. #31
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    Black Jack, I was reading on article a while back on strength training for athletes. The author recommended using isometrics for about 30 % of your exercises. I basically do a horse stance, and a cat stance, very low for my lower body, and for upper body, I lower myself halfway in a pul up positon and hold, and do the same with dips. I'm just coming back off being sick, but I can feel the difference under the bar already. Try it for a couple weeks at the end of your workout. It takes about 5-7 minutes at the end of a session. It works better after you've already smoked your body.
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

  2. #32
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    Try it for a couple weeks at the end of your workout. It takes about 5-7 minutes at the end of a session. It works better after you've already smoked your body.
    I will give it a whirl, I am heading out to the gym in about a half hour. Sounds kinda like what I do between sets of bench but with pushups and static holds.

    The remark about stance training is not to degrade any form of excercise in specific, excercise is always a good thing, its just about people doing this very drawn out stance holding that you tend to see, when you look at the intense time some invest on this training, I think on a contextual scale it might be better for them to devote it to weight training.

    Cheers,

  3. #33
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    I think it's better to do both. Law of diminishing returns. If I do some stance holding, I get a lot of benefit. If I do some weight training, I get a lot of benefit, If I stretch regularly I get a lot of benefit. The more I focus on each, the less return I get. So I figure if I do a little of all 3, I'm maximazing my training time. (and I don't have near as much as I'd like) So far, I'm very pleased with the results.
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

  4. #34
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    I generally switch off, one session i hold, the next I do a more modern method.

    I do mix it up too, like when I do my circute, I will do 4 exercises, pullups, pushups, a core exercise, and a back therapy exercise (I added that, the circute was originaly only 3). I do 3 sets, on the third set, I do a holding version of everything. I willl hold a pull up like WD does, I do a pushup hold thhat is similar to holding the ball in Taiji, only laying down on the arms to build the strructure. This one is really tough because you have to really struggle to maintain the requirements. The core training is a Hollow hold from my daughter's gymnastcs system..also a structure building exercise. It's really good, so i added it in. And last, I hold a back therapy exercise.

    Once I have done all the sets of 4 exercises, I do them one more time at half or 2/3s the reps. It ends up being 6 sets of 4 exercises. Each set is a different version of the exercise. For example, the first is standard pushups (Or a bench press when I'm lifting), the next set would be triangle pushups, and the third was origiannll circle pushups, but I am laying on the ball right now instead.

    The only odd ball is the back therapy exercises, I keep the first 3 sets the same exercise and then mix it up in the second 3 sets. The back therapy exercises are also the only ones I don't drop the number of reps in the second 3 sets. They are generally easier for me and i sometimes add weights to my arms when i do them.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  5. #35
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    I think it's better to do both. Law of diminishing returns. If I do some stance holding, I get a lot of benefit. If I do some weight training, I get a lot of benefit, If I stretch regularly I get a lot of benefit. The more I focus on each, the less return I get. So I figure if I do a little of all 3, I'm maximazing my training time. (and I don't have near as much as I'd like) So far, I'm very pleased with the results.

    Reply]
    I have found similar. I tend to focus more on one or the other for cycles, then shift the focus to another for a cycle as soon as I see the returns diminishig. I condition more in winter, and do more cardio in the summer for example.
    Last edited by Royal Dragon; 04-19-2007 at 09:22 AM.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  6. #36
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    In a sense Royal your right that there is just the one muscle, but and I am not talking for Water here, that strength training with isometric contractions prodcues large but highly angle-specific adaptations

    Reply]
    I think that has to do with the muscle groups kicking in that are supporting the main action. Thta is why you don't only hold a horse stance, you hold a variety of stances.

    I think its these angel specific adaptions people are talking about. Either way I believe your far better off hitting free weights and using conventional modern training for legs power, squats, deads, lunges.

    Reply]
    If your goal is raw strength, yes, you are right. Stances don't seem to build much strength once you can hold them past a minute or two...it's all muscular endurance after that. You do get better structural alignement, and a greater, and greater resistance to haveing it compromised the longer you hold though. That translates into being able to resist takedowns, as many takedowns require the structure to be compromised first, before they will work..
    Last edited by Royal Dragon; 04-19-2007 at 09:40 AM.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Dragon View Post
    ... If you train right, you can get all the results you need in under 3 minutes 3-4 times a week. Work it in to your daily stretching routine if you want, but don't make it out to be more than what it is, a training tool....
    Or wandering up and down the warehouse doing stance training, duck walk and other things most people quit doing in grade school. Man, do I get some odd looks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    you're kidding? i would love to drink that beer just BECAUSE it's in a dead animal...i may even pick up the next dead squirrel i see and stuff a budweiser in it

  8. #38
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    lol. You need to videotape yourself doing that and let Master Killer post it on the main forum.
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Dragon View Post
    Well yeah. I've never learned stances as direct fighting stances like a lot of people seem to do...
    Sad, sad, sad. No wonder why you don't realize the value of stance work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    you're kidding? i would love to drink that beer just BECAUSE it's in a dead animal...i may even pick up the next dead squirrel i see and stuff a budweiser in it

  10. #40
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    Sad, sad, sad. No wonder why you don't realize the value of stance work
    Maybe he just realizes the difference between form and function.

    Form is just how you look, a movement such as the intergrated dimensions of a stance or how your body presents itself to a viewer. Function is how you actually perform, by the success of a application of a move.

    Let's not even get into the fact that in a non-sparring encounter your stance is whatever you are in at the time.

  11. #41
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    Form is just how you look, a movement such as the intergrated dimensions of a stance or how your body presents itself to a viewer. Function is how you actually perform, by the success of a application of a move.

    Reply]
    Umm, arent form and function supposed to be the same? For a bow stance for instance, it's used in throws and takedowns done with Diagonal cut. The bow stance is identical in the take down as it is used when practicing diagonal cut. There is no difference between form and function.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  12. #42
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    No there not really the same. Neither really messes with the other to much but function based training will lead to proper form more often than proper form based training insures the ability to function. Function is the most important element of the two. Excellent form is actually the product of good function.

    Look at how different martial arts train. Take boxing for example, which is a function based combative sport system. The same techniques, give or take, can be found in a number of other traditional based fighting methods, like long fist or karate. The main emphasis is on being able to apply the function, which are the techniques, often under duress.

    In boxing there are no deep set forms or set in stone by route movements and the training emphasizes actual application in a contested enviroment. Because of this functionality in its training, where one has to always ask themselves if they can pull it off for real, its no big suprise that in a exchange of hands, boxers tend to get the upper hand vrs some other traditional fistic systems.

    Your main goal in training should be to get yourself the attributes you need to be functional. That should be your main principle. Good form is a part of that toolbox to get there but its not the end in itself. Everyone here has seen the player that looks amazing on the heavybag, or really athletic in their forms and stance work, the guy who can blow throw energy drills like a pro, but when you put him in a sparring context, where do all these fancy techniques vanish?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal Dragon View Post
    Form is just how you look, a movement such as the intergrated dimensions of a stance or how your body presents itself to a viewer. Function is how you actually perform, by the success of a application of a move.

    Reply]
    Umm, arent form and function supposed to be the same? For a bow stance for instance, it's used in throws and takedowns done with Diagonal cut. The bow stance is identical in the take down as it is used when practicing diagonal cut. There is no difference between form and function.

    This may be the most incorrect post of the year.
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

  14. #44
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    How? The bow done in the Diagonal Cut is the same in the drill, as we used it in the throw. I really don't see any difference at all, other than adjusting the hieght up or down to match various opponents.

    And if IS different, you are doing something wrong...maybe that is why your throw does not work, or maybe you are doing your drill wrong...

    Train like you fight and all that.
    Last edited by Royal Dragon; 04-19-2007 at 01:46 PM.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  15. #45
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    lol. It's my best throw.
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

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