The Role Of Stance trainning....

[Royal Dragon]

Then you should make sure your drill is like the way you actually use it. To do it different would be wrong.

[Water Dragon]

You're really sumthin else, Gian.

[Royal Dragon]

What am I saying that is so wrong?

[Water Dragon]

Bro, you don't understand any of the training. You just made up your mind that you think you know what's going on. The form you're talking about is for the entry step, the kuzushi. It's a drill. The same shape can be used for different things, but you gotta focus on what you want. You don't train the stance and then go fight like that.

[Royal Dragon]

Bro, you don't understand any of the training.

Reply]
Ahh, my good Soaked, Draconian, Serpent, friend, I think I understand the training better than you do...after all I'm not the one that posted that pic of the crapiest horse stance to be found and sited it as an example of the correct!

>>You just made up your mind that you think you know what's going on. The form you're talking about is for the entry step, the kuzushi. It's a drill.

Reply]
No kidding!!! However, it uses the Bow stance the same way as it is also held in static practice. Which is why I am siteing it as my example.

The same shape can be used for different things, but you gotta focus on what you want. You don't train the stance and then go fight like that.

Reply]
But the stance IS used in a fight, exactly the way you hold it when you train it!! It's just in training it is held a long time (train hard, fight easy and all that), and when in use it's only a split second. Reguardless of how long you hold it, the posture is the same. How is it you cannot see that?

[SevenStar]

Sad, sad, sad. No wonder why you don't realize the value of stance work.

why is that sad? in judo and bjj, you will do no stance training. yet, in their takedowns and throws, you will see many of the stances cma guys train. stance training has its uses, but in the grand scheme of things, it's unnecessary.

[Black Jack II]

stance training has its uses, but in the grand scheme of things, it's unnecessary.

That is basically what I stated, but its easier to fall under some illusions I guess.

[kwaichang]

Yes there are upper and lower rectus abdominus Muscles, also holding stance does isolate an area of the muscle known as the Z band. That is an area located at the tendinous junction with the muscle belly, also it strengthenes the Ligaments and the tendon bone connection. Thus causing greater contractile strength and stronger joints. Since stance work is a Closed chain activity it helps to work the agonist and antagonistic muscles together. So the joint is more stable and less prone to injury. SO STRONGER KICKS AND PUNCHES ETC. KC
PS stance training is very necessary if you want to be a well rounded MA. of any type.

[Water Dragon]

Reply]
Ahh, my good Soaked, Draconian, Serpent, friend, I think I understand the training better than you do...after all I'm not the one that posted that pic of the crapiest horse stance to be found and sited it as an example of the correct!

Why is that horse crappy?

[Royal Dragon]

It breaks all the principles. The shoulders are pulled back, NOT rounded, the chest is puffed out, NOT Sunk, the back is arched, NOT straight, the posterior is stuck out, NOT tail bone tucked.

It basically not only violates every basic principal, but actually does them all wrong to the extreme.

An expert such as yourself, who knows everything, has studied Tai Chi, Shui Jiao as well as non Chinese arts *Should* know this stuff...it's day one material, and you have been standing right next to me when MJ made those very corrections on both of us....

[Royal Dragon]

Although these pics of me have thier flaws, they at least adhear to the basics principals.

1 Shoulders are rounded.

2 Chest is sunk

3 spine is stright, not arched back.

4 tail bone is tucked.

5 no joints are fully locked out.

Some schools seem a bit less picky on the tucking the tail bone issue, and prefer to focus on keeping the knee back to the toes, but I have yet to see one where you are *Told* to stick the posterior out like the pictures you posted.

For reference, I included the example you posted as the ipmideomy of the Correct.

[Royal Dragon]

also holding stance does isolate an area of the muscle known as the Z band. That is an area located at the tendinous junction with the muscle belly,

Reply]
How exactly does it do that? You would need to add an anchor point to bone between that, and the muscle belly to isolate the tension to that specific location. Unless you are talking about a muscle with multiple heads, what you are claiming is not posible from even an engineering standpoint.

[Royal Dragon]

Oh WD, and one more thing, it's kind of hard to see because of the angle, but if you look close at your example, you can see how his legs are angled? His knees are pulled in towards his center a bit, indicateing he is useing a way too wide of a horse stance. That inward pressure is really bad on the knees(If you remember, one of MJ's corrections more perticular to me, not you). Its way worse than letting them move in front of the toes.

Should I go on? I do have a few more critques as to why your example is totally wrong...

Really, posting that pic as an example of your knowledge and expertise, while demeaning mine in the same thread is worse than siteing me as an example for good grammer and spelling...and then demeaning an English teacher...

[Water Dragon]

Somehow, I knew you were gonna say that, Gian. Yup, the back IS arched. The shoulders Are pulled back, and the chest IS puffed out. Kinda like this:

http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/31/f...quat_fig09.jpg

And this

http://www.naturalphysiques.com/images/squat.jpg

And this

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/squat.jpg

And this

http://spidersport.com/photos/exerci...ft_galya_2.jpg

And this

http://www.eigenkracht.nl/media/files/deadlift-s.jpg

And this

http://www.scholastic.com/coach/co3C...r_Deadlift.JPG

http://www.icon.fi/~nagai/images/ogoshi.jpg

So no, I'm not fulfillig your requirements, but I am training my back to make the strongest anatomical shape possible. Less risk of injury.

Train how you want, Gian. But please don't other people they are wrong because they are doing something you apparently can't comprehend.

[SevenStar]

Yes there are upper and lower rectus abdominus Muscles, also holding stance does isolate an area of the muscle known as the Z band. That is an area located at the tendinous junction with the muscle belly, also it strengthenes the Ligaments and the tendon bone connection. Thus causing greater contractile strength and stronger joints. Since stance work is a Closed chain activity it helps to work the agonist and antagonistic muscles together. So the joint is more stable and less prone to injury. SO STRONGER KICKS AND PUNCHES ETC. KC
PS stance training is very necessary if you want to be a well rounded MA. of any type.

that sounds good. really.

there are upper and lower abs, but as everyone should know, the abs are one sheet of muscle. it is physiologically impossible to work one and not the other.

the z bands work in conjunction with skeletal muscle. while I don't know if weight training does anything for z bands specifically, I know it benefits skeletal muscle.

from a strength training perspective, stance training is inferior to weights. stance training cannot offer progressive resistance, so over time it becomes anendurance exercise, not one of strength.

squats also improve joint stability. and stronger kicks.

boxers, wrestlers, thai boxers, mma guys, judoka... NONE of these do any formal stance training, so how is it that you can assert that stance training is a necessity for all well rounded MAists?