The Role Of Stance trainning....

[Royal Dragon]

Umm dummy, these two examples you posted are adhearing to the principals I am talking about, AND THEY AREN'T EVEN DOING HORSE STANCE!!!.



http://www.naturalphysiques.com/images/squat.jpg

http://www.eigenkracht.nl/media/files/deadlift-s.jpg

Not that those examples even apply to what we are talking about, totally different issueing of force going on here...

You say this,

But please don't other people they are wrong because they are doing something you apparently can't comprehend.

When you are telling me "I don't understand the training, I don't comprehend", and basically talking down to me, and you can't even post a series of examples without conflicitng between my point, and yours!!

AND you post pics of a type of power issueng not really even seen in martial arts. You can't even throw someone well like that!! It just a straight up and down motion, throws use an acrhing, type power!!

And you say *I* don't comprehend this stuff??

Keep smoking whatever it is you Smoke dude, it's got you nice and isolated from the real observable world!!

[Water Dragon]

OK Bro. Go put 250 on your back, tuck your spine and squat. Go tuck your spine and do a hip throw. You do that and I'll keep following the advice of my coaches, and we'll both be happy.

[Royal Dragon]

Hey dingaling!

Look, even old school Karate doesn't puff the chest, pull the shoulders back, stick the butt out, and they certianly don't arch the back!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3doB...elated&search=

And look close, even though they aren't fully following the principals, they ARE leaning towards them, especially the shoulders!! They seem more neutral, but defenetly not doing it YOUR way!!

They are neutral but leaning in the direction of what I am telling you.

[Water Dragon]

Did you just use a 1940's movie scene to prove your point?

[Royal Dragon]

Hey, look at THIS clip, NO back arching, chest puffing, pulling back the shoulers or sticking the ass out here!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryxByDCdC64

In fact, this is pretty much TOTALLY following the principals I am describing!


Who doesn't understand this stuff now??

[kwaichang]

Weight training does train the muscles but LE weight training exercises are not safer for the joint than stance training. MARTIAL ARTS MUSCLE is different than weight lifter body builder muscle. With weights you train the fast twitch with stance the slow twitch or endurance muscle. If you kick once or twice weights are fine but with stance you develope strength an endurance. Most fights require more than one kick or punch. Also stance is more of an isometric contraction not concentric and essentric like weights isometric has been known to strengthen muscles better than weights thus the new SUPER SLOW METHODS. as far as anatomical strength of the spine the natural curve of the lumbar is good for everyday activities but for Chi Circulation and core strengthening during certain activities like punching and Kicking a posterior tilt of the pelvis is more stable. KC
PS there are 4 layers of abdominal muscles. Transversus, internal , external obliques , rectus abdominis

[Royal Dragon]

OH!! Lets look at THIS ONE

No back arching, chest puffing, pulling back shouders and sticking the ass out here either!! Not even in the little bit of stand up that there is!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJHMw...elated&search=

Dare I say? Rounded shoulders? Tucked Tail bone? Back straight???

OMG IT IS!!!!!!!

[Royal Dragon]

HOLY SMOKES!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7dIK...elated&search=

Again, in what little stand up there is, they agree with MEEEE!!!!!

[Water Dragon]

Gian, you posted a movie, a form, and two MMA fights to back up an argument about a stationary training drill that gets used way too much, IMO. I'm trying to argue for stances as an auxiliary training methods combined with weights and done to get very specific benefits, and I have no idea what your trying to argue after all these pages besides, "his butt's not tucked"

[Royal Dragon]

AHHH HAA Fedor agrees with me too!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I-6UVNpAXo

The only place he arches his back is when he does chin ups.

He even sinks his chest and tucks his tail bone...just not as much as a Chinese stylist.

No back arching here, shoulders stay ROUND, not arched!!

What? Fedor is one of the best fighters in the world? AND he does what Royal Dragon is saying, and NOT you??

Can it possibly be???

Ha Ha Ha hA HA!!

[Royal Dragon]

Whos is not tucked?

No one is Arching like you say is right there buddy! I don't see any shoulders pulled back, only rounded. Even the guys who don't hold the structure fully the way I say, lean in my direction.

We are arguing stances are for building proper structure, the very same structure all these guys use....

You are saying no, it uses all sorts of wierd arching and is used for strength or conditioning...wHich is a SIDE effect, not the sole purpose. That clearly shows you don't even know what the correct stance is, or what it is even for! How can you jude if it's good training if you don't even know how to do it correctly, and thearfore can't possibly judge if it's useful or not?

And THEN you say *I* don't understand the training? The original argument is Mute after that comment..

[Royal Dragon]

I'm trying to argue for stances as an auxiliary training methods combined with weights and done to get very specific benefits

Reply]
No, that went out the window a long time ago, now you are arguing that I don't know what I am talking about, when I infact Do, and at the same time you have demostrated you are totally clueless and have no room to be speaking down to me.

[Water Dragon]

Man, this thread somehow turned into a traffic accident. Gian, you haven't posted any examples where what I'm arguing would even to come into play. There's no hip throws going on in any of this. Do you think you're smart because you point out these guys are not sticking their bums out most of the time? They're not tucking their spines under either. They're simply not sticking their bums out. That's most likely because they're not doing anything that requires them to load anything on a hip. Do you think I stick my @ss out when I box?

If you're so set on proving me wrong, go find some Judo or Shuai Chiao clips of people doing some type of hip throw while tucking their bums.

[Royal Dragon]

Hmmm, Like you brought weight lifting into a horse stance argument?

Structure is structure.

Besides, even if I show you what is right, based on the conflicting examples you posted before, you are not capeable of seeing it.

This whole thing is pointless.

[SevenStar]

Weight training does train the muscles but LE weight training exercises are not safer for the joint than stance training. MARTIAL ARTS MUSCLE is different than weight lifter body builder muscle. With weights you train the fast twitch with stance the slow twitch or endurance muscle. If you kick once or twice weights are fine but with stance you develope strength an endurance. Most fights require more than one kick or punch. Also stance is more of an isometric contraction not concentric and essentric like weights isometric has been known to strengthen muscles better than weights thus the new SUPER SLOW METHODS. as far as anatomical strength of the spine the natural curve of the lumbar is good for everyday activities but for Chi Circulation and core strengthening during certain activities like punching and Kicking a posterior tilt of the pelvis is more stable. KC
PS there are 4 layers of abdominal muscles. Transversus, internal , external obliques , rectus abdominis

superslow? see, this is why people laugh when martial artists give weight training advice.

1. superslow is not new

2. ss is not conducive to building explosiveness

3.there is no such thing as martial arts muscle. how it is trained determines how it functions - you play how you train.
4. there is a difference in how body builders train and how strength athletes like power lifters train.

5. weight training can build muscular endurance as well. try to bench press 225 twenty times if you doubt this.

6. isometric training only builds strength in the position being held, not a full range of motion.

7. you were only talking about the rectus abdominis. that is where the upper and lower abs are. however, when many people mention lower abs, they are usually really referring to the adductors and abductors