Wing chun at its best.......

[SanHeChuan]

Does six inches of height difference ( hitting the chest rather than the head) really make all that difference with your VT ?

Hell YES, body shots do not cause unconsciousness!

[ammocase]

I used to see it that way mate and i can see your point. However, one could argue that if you changed the rules in that comp to allow head shots for instance. The other guy can now ALSO punch to the head, so its kinda moot IMO.

Seeing all those baragges of punches flying from the WC guy compared to the karateka.. imagine if it was aimed at the head, look at the link i put up of mr flying WC goof.. he chain punched the guy in the face till he was down an he was smaller then him... it doesnt take much hits to the head especially considering the kyokusinkai was more conditioned in the mid section then the wc guy...

I dont know about your style but my WC style many shots are to the head. most fights i seen by wc people are aimed at the head ( not that wc is primarily headhunters but google a video or check a class out an see ), an atleast it evens things up since mas oyama style would have to deal with a whole new stratgey of defending their head from punches an strikes when they arent used to training like that for competetion.

Does six inches of height difference ( hitting the chest rather than the head) really make all that difference with your VT ?

yes it defintley does.. im suprised its even questioned lol.. i kickboxed an did karate an now wing chun, i fought in my fair matches of fights. When it comes to opening hands to the head... its not about inches why would anyone ever say that... not at all, midsection an the head area as targets is way more then just inches. Its a whole new mind set. An you are aware that high punches telegraph more? Opening the head a new set of combinations open up as well... an you got a guy whos only used to defending his high area only when he sees his oponent shift for a kick. Vision gets obscured more with hand to head shots.. an so on an so on.

[Wayfaring]

Hell YES, body shots do not cause unconsciousness!

I remember watching a full contact kickboxing match where Benny Urquidez knocked his opponent unconscious with a kick to the body.

[ammocase]

I remember watching a full contact kickboxing match where Benny Urquidez knocked his opponent unconscious with a kick to the body.

Lol you serious? How the hell... tramatic brain shock/ injury is what causes this... its a drop in mental state. Tho i have heard its possible if its hit hard enough an the "jet" must have socked that fool good.

I seen people fall unconscious when they mistakenly walked into a cabinet door an banged their temples to it lol...

[Ultimatewingchun]

A powerful kick to the solar plexus can easily put someone down for 5 minutes or more. I've been on both ends of that.

[Vajramusti]

That pic has made the rounds before. Without taking away the power of the
Oyama style kicker...
1. Many styles of karate, judo, bjj have some quality control.
2. Wing chun given its diversity does not have overall stylistric quality control.Big gulfs between good and bad wing chun.
3.the wc guy in the u tube- I dont know where he learned or who his sifu was/is.
He obviously didnt learn much... very poor structure, very poor balance and footwork and very underdeveloped punching ability.
4. Given the rules on no head shots- still- given the opportunities he had-he should have been able to put the person down- even if the other guy was wearing a protector..IMHO, FWIW
5.Further he didnt show wc knowledge on protection.
6. Cant judge styles by naively watching u tube.IMHO.FWIW
Experience in "seeing" things matter, me thinks.

joy chaudhuri

[Liddel]

Hell YES, body shots do not cause unconsciousness!

They can... momentarily, which can stop a fight.
What do you consider a win ?

The guy was going down after one good body shot, this then gives an oppotunity to stomp the poor guy in a real encounter....

So yes, a good body shot can produce fight ending results.

[Liddel]

Seeing all those baragges of punches flying from the WC guy compared to the karateka..

If ten of the WC guys punches to chest did nothing - compared with one punch to the chest from his opponent, dropping him.

Obviously if both were able to shoot for the head id put my money on the karate guy... he has power.
The other guy has poor fighting skills whatever his style.

Im a VT man, but that doesnt bias my view on this situation.

I dont know about your style but my WC style many shots are to the head.

My VT stresses hitting open space, with kicks, punches, palms and elbows. If the head is open then sure i go there. Im not so sure of myself to believe that every person i fight will leave thier head open for me.

Tito Ortiz - "Train for the worst, and the best will always happen" LOL

yes it defintley does.. im suprised its even questioned lol..

It's points orientated is it not ?
If it wernt for the fact his blocking was crap and hed never heard the saying - "when your greedy with punches mind your empty space" he may have had a chance of winning....

It seems we have a different POV, cheers for the chat.

[Liddel]

Im having a slow day at work, thought you guys might like to see some clips semi related to this thread.....enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22-c96yHngA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpAV9PM3XGc

[Vajramusti]

Both do powerful bodywork. Both shots were "liver" shots- where the lobe of the liver comes down on the right front side of the body. Those punches were delivered from a boxing structure. Parallel work can be done witha wing chun structure. There are mok jong motions that can be practiced.

On the right side Roy Jones Jr in his prime put down a supermiddleweight
ina championship match witha right hand body punch that put his opponent down completely...floating rib punch that actually broke a rib. Since wc is ambidextrous-- one can practice on the jong on both sides ---with proper wing chun balanced footwork.

joy chaudhuri

[drleungjohn]

I can say a body shot-delivered well-(and if you don't think you can't get knocked out by one-have a real boxer hit you)-stops your breathing,causes diaphragm spasm,whole side body pain,a "nobodies home " consciousness and an inability to move-what is also importnat is that the sensory nerves are ascending pathways that once reaching the brain-cross over to the other side--which means a seemingly little love tap to the head after a body shot,is magnified neurologically-so it actually overloads the CNS-so a left low hook,left high,hook, right cross is more devastating then you think-

[planetwc]

BS.

That was a junior Wing Chun guy facing off with one of Oyama's top fighters.
Why didn't Oyama have William Cheung's old school fighters in the tournament?
Joe Mohengi, Rick Spain etc. They would have beat some @ss down.

That whole tournament was designed to make Kyokushinkai appear to be the best in the world, and to specifically make the Japanese fighters the best. I've watched the entire movie and it is quite clear that was the goal.

Oyama picked weaker fighters where he could and where there were stronger fighters they then were made to run through a gauntlet of increasingly larger fighters to wear them down. You could see that with the Muay Thai fighters for example. They had featherweight Muay Thai fighters that ended up having to face heavyweight challengers to continue.

The US, French and UK fighters had to maul each other first.
In the end the top 3 japanese fighters won. Surprise surprise.

What happened? Theoretical nonfighter meeting reality.

[leroyjnsn]

That wasnt Ving Tsun, that was GARBAGE!!!!!!!

[ammocase]

WC vs Kickboxing...

You people say the shrimp in the first vid was a bad WC fighter, k see a medicore WC guy fight a weak kickboxer... are people so quick to judge the style of kickboxing, the same way they judged the style of WC in the vid of the original post ( not really pointing this site out, just in general)?

An i study both of these arts.. so no hate from me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlRPDhuX1DY

[t_niehoff]

BS.

That was a junior Wing Chun guy facing off with one of Oyama's top fighters.
Why didn't Oyama have William Cheung's old school fighters in the tournament?
Joe Mohengi, Rick Spain etc. They would have beat some @ss down.

That whole tournament was designed to make Kyokushinkai appear to be the best in the world, and to specifically make the Japanese fighters the best. I've watched the entire movie and it is quite clear that was the goal.

Oyama picked weaker fighters where he could and where there were stronger fighters they then were made to run through a gauntlet of increasingly larger fighters to wear them down. You could see that with the Muay Thai fighters for example. They had featherweight Muay Thai fighters that ended up having to face heavyweight challengers to continue.

The US, French and UK fighters had to maul each other first.
In the end the top 3 japanese fighters won. Surprise surprise.

David, no argument from me -- it was a propaganda show, and the kyokushikai people did pick the weakest pups from the litter to fight with. Certainly there were at the time good WCK fighters, like those you mentioned. But as Andrew pointed out, you could see from how the WCK guy moved and trained he wasn't a fighter and wasn't training like a fighter.