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Thread: Why I don't practice CLF anymore.

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Havick01 View Post
    He just alot of talk, i know him well because he is my class mate
    We have seen video of him competing, so he can't be ALL talk...
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    We have seen video of him competing, so he can't be ALL talk...
    LOL!!! If you call that competing.
    Havick

  3. #63
    even point fighting is competing. Since you seem to knock what he did do though, where is video of you and infrazael? Naturally, yours will be of a higher contact level, since you are knocking fu-pow's....

    Basically, what I am saying is since you guys are talking bad about him and issuing challenges, put yourself out there - let us see something.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    even point fighting is competing. Since you seem to knock what he did do though, where is video of you and infrazael? Naturally, yours will be of a higher contact level, since you are knocking fu-pow's....

    Basically, what I am saying is since you guys are talking bad about him and issuing challenges, put yourself out there - let us see something.
    I dont need to prove my self Im not out to be a know it all, people like fu pow should learn how to be a student of the game. Thats the way we all grow!
    Last edited by Havick01; 06-06-2007 at 12:25 PM.
    Havick

  5. #65
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    good talking with you havick.

    keep in touch bra.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  6. #66
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    i agree with havick.

    when u stop being a student you have no more to learn. but a good martial artist knows learning never stops.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  7. #67
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    good talking with you havick.

    keep in touch bra.
    It was cool chating with you, i will keep intouch for sure!
    Havick

  8. #68
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    15 years later

    I thought it would be interesting to revisit this post nearly 15 years later.

    I am still practicing Chen taiji, but I see the value in CLF as system that is easier to learn and immediately apply. The reason is that I wanted to teach my son (now 10) some form of martial arts. It would be impossible to teach him Chen Taiji because it's simply too slow and esoteric for a young guy.

    A lot of my thoughts from the original post still applies. But here are some pros and cons of each style that I see:

    Chen Taiji
    -Harder to learn because body mechanics are a bit counterintuitive (opening, closing, silk-reeling, etc.)
    -Most effective in the clinch range (also includes strikes with elbows, shoulders, hips, back, etc.)
    -Better for your joint health because of how it is practiced
    -Almost impossible to defend if someone understands the techniques/mechanics well
    -Better for older people who have the patience to move slow at first (but remember, slow is smooth and smooth is fast)
    -Most schools don't engage in any kind of hard sparring

    Choy Lay Fut
    -Extremely practical compared to taichi (shorter learning curve)
    -Easier to defend because attacks are more telegraphed
    -Good cardio workout
    -Most effective at mid to long range
    -Looks cooler!
    -Compliments kickboxing/san shou well
    -Ballistic movements can put stress on the joints
    -Too many forms with slight variations on the same core techniques/seeds
    -Huge variety in weapons you can learn
    -More proactive, don't have to wait for opponent to attack

    I could probably think of more, but that's what immediately came to mind. Feel free to agree/disagree. In the meantime, I've also studied BJJ a bit. Really exceptional on the ground, but that's about it.

    Also, I should note that some of the issues I was having with CLF in my thirties were probably a result of degenerative disc disease. I've subsequently had a lot of lower back issues as a result of compressed discs. So it's not necessarily a problem with the style, but I do think CLF requires a certain amount of athleticism and is therefore a style more suited to younger people.

    Cheers


    Quote Originally Posted by Fu-Pow View Post
    Some people have thought in the past that I have a certain allegiance to a particular martial arts style, sub-branch or teacher. They were dead wrong. What my quest in martial arts has always been is to find the best style, sub-branch or teacher and learn as much as I can. (I often approach that learning from many different angles, historical, practical, biological to get the best understanding that I can.)

    With that in mind IMHO there some serious flaws in the CLF system. That's not to say that CLF isn't effective as a method of hand to hand combat, it can be. The problem as I see it is that there are more efficient ways and better strategies to the same result (ie effectiveness in hand to hand combat.) The style that I have been increasingly drawn to for the last ten years is Chen Taiji..... for these two main reasons, efficiency and strategy.

    Greater efficiency means 3 things:

    1) Less wasted motion leads to greater power potential.
    2) Less wasted motion leads to quicker response times.
    3) Less wasted motion leads to less training injuries.


    In the strategy of Chen Taiji hard force (li) is not met with hard force (li.) That's not to say that force is never resisted or met with resistance or that force is not issued.

    However, it is different than meeting it with muscular strength. The strength in Chen Taiji is more like the rigidity of a hose filled with water rather than an iron bar like CLF (or any other external style for that matter). In practice this means that there is less chance of injury as a result of your own actions. Yes, you can hard block an attack with a shin or forearm but eventually your body will pay the price.

    So I think there are better ways and that is the path that I am following. I don't regret my CLF training, it still informs alot of what I do and it was a great discipline for me as a young man. However, as I move into my 30s I need a training method where I can continue to progress for the next 60 yrs (hopefully!). Unfortunately, that means that I've had to "invest in loss" and abandon my CLF training so that I can refine the body mechanics of Chen Taiji.....and they are very different from anything that I currently understand.

    Best to everyone in their training and I hope you CLFers still consider me your kung fu brother even if I've chosen another road.

    Take care,

    FP

    Here are some clips of my Taiji Sigung:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4w_62WX9Rk

    Here's some really good Chen Taiji push hands from my Sibak:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DADYbpj4oMw
    Last edited by Fu-Pow; 11-24-2022 at 09:46 AM.

  9. #69
    Also, I should note that some of the issues I was having with CLF in my thirties were probably a result of degenerative disc disease. I've subsequently had a lot of lower back issues as a result of compressed discs. So it's not necessarily a problem with the style, but I do think CLF requires a certain amount of athleticism and is therefore a style more suited to younger people.
    Uh, I also got compressed discs back in '97 and thought I had to give up Choy Li Fut. It was taking about a decade to heal and was telling the Master I learned most of it from that I didn't think my back would heal more that 90% and he said: you can heal your back to 100% then go beyond that! so that's what I did. Now I can do much harder kung fu than I ever did in my 20's...

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by YinOrYan View Post
    Uh, I also got compressed discs back in '97 and thought I had to give up Choy Li Fut. It was taking about a decade to heal and was telling the Master I learned most of it from that I didn't think my back would heal more that 90% and he said: you can heal your back to 100% then go beyond that! so that's what I did. Now I can do much harder kung fu than I ever did in my 20's...
    I can't do any jumping or high kicks without it aggravating my back. Also, had to quit BJJ because every time I rolled back onto my tailbone it caused a disc bulge and caused a lot of pain/numbness.

    Unfortunately, I think it's a genetic thing. Both my dad and sister have the same issues.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Fu-Pow View Post

    Unfortunately, I think it's a genetic thing. Both my dad and sister have the same issues.
    Sorry to hear that. Born-that-way or just-growing-old are things I tried to avoid when healing. I eventually found the most helpful thing in my control was getting more complete proteins, mostly from soymilk...

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