Why I don't practice CLF anymore.

[Eddie]

I think you are blaming the style and the teacher, when the real blame should be on yourself. Nothing wrong with CLF as a fighting style, and if you feel it lacks certain aspects, perhaps you didn’t train with that in mind.
If you’re not going to train like a fighter, you wont learn how to fight.

[Yen-Wang-Yeh]

Not every style is for every one, nor is every teacher suited for every student. Fu-Pow, good luck in your search for whatever it is you may be seeking.

[Fu-Pow]

I think you are blaming the style and the teacher, when the real blame should be on yourself.

Actually I'm not "blaming" anyone. That's just the way things played out. I'm sorry if you feel that I'm putting down CLF, I'm not. I wouldn't have invested 10 years of my life into it if I thought it was a piece of crap.

Nothing wrong with CLF as a fighting style, and if you feel it lacks certain aspects, perhaps you didn’t train with that in mind.
If you’re not going to train like a fighter, you wont learn how to fight.

Never said there was anything wrong with CLF as a fighting style. No question in the right hands it can be effective. However, your body will ultimately pay the price for that type of training and fighting strategy. Its OK when you are young but it will catch up with you. IMO there are better training methods and fighting strategies. Ultimately its what works for you and your lifestyle.

[T. Cunningham]

CLF Nole makes a solid point. At the end of the day, it all boils down to the instruction and how well the student follows it. Regardless of the style, the objective should be natural movement otherwise injury is inevitable. The same applies with efficiency of movement. It comes down to understanding the movement and how it relates to your body. Many people assume they are advanced simply because they practice the higher level forms. Problem is they often perform these in the same fashion as they performed the beginning sets. Being that the methods of generating energy become more sophisticated as we move through the forms, it is essential that our understanding grows and that we adapt our movements accordingly. The forms teach us these things, but we have to pay attention.

Kung Fu is a thinking man's/woman's game. It requires rational thought and analysis in combination with the endless repetition of your forms and drills.

[hskwarrior]

see, i agree with clfnole, t.c., and eddie.

also, choy lee fut isn't for just anyone. truthfully, clf is without a doubt one of the most effective systems out there. its practical, effective, and not full of flashy moves that mean nothing.

however, if one was to find holes in his clf, there is enough material out there within clf that if you looked good enough, you can cover up ALL the holes. I agree with drilling, but forms are becoming obsolete? (spelling) in its purpose. when i get stressed out, i practice my forms. partly because i train as if someone is in front of me. so i wipe em out every time!!!!!!! but, forms in the bigger scheme of things is on the lower end of the totem pole when it comes to fighting and learning how to use your gung fu.

don't get me wrong, performing is fun, but nothing beats bashing arms, and struggling and such.....forms just don't bring it like that. that's why i hope in the near future more clf schools will back off on forms cause too much credibility is given to them.......like what lineage is better due to forms......a dance, just a routine set of moves. if anyone believes that you can use the moves within the forms, you're sadly mistaken.

nothing is as predictable as when practicing forms. in fact, i guarantee that at least 90% of our gung fu gets thrown out in the heat of battle. thats why its great to drill combo's, work on muscle memory, and eventually break away from that "ok, with your right hand punch me at a 90degree angle using only your two knuckles and aim it at my nose".......................i along with other CLF sifu's have taken a different approach to that kind of training. truelly, thats not effective.

so let fu pow go..........clf will still be here.

[CLFNole]

I agree with you Frank. Every style has some type of weakness as no style is 100% effective one just needs to work on not letting that weakness get exposed or work in improving the weakness by either re-examining what you know or opening up your mind and looking elsewhere for help.

I am not sure I completely agree that forms can't be used for fighting. I agree long drawn out sections are completely impractical but bits and pieces can work. But then I think we probably both agree on that since that is what drills basically are effective bits and pieces from the forms.

I don't think anyone should get on Fu-Pow for chaning to a different style. If CLF is not for him no big deal because its right for us and that is what matters most, doing what is best for us whatever style that might be.

[hskwarrior]

now im kinda giving up some of my teaching secrets.....but for new students they don't get to learn the form until they master the techniques within them. something not typically done in hung sing. its usually before understanding the form, you learn it, practice it and only after you memorized it do you get to look inside of it.

so i took the combo's and such out of the sets, drills them and when i see progress they get to learn the form. i've discovered that they learn better that way, and actually know why and what they are doing in the form prior to learning it.

like most speak about clf's long range stuff, but they have no idea about the inside hands of our gung fu. so what. let them believe that. but just cause you find limitations in what your SIFU taught you, doesn't mean that clf doesn't have an answer.......be creative, open minded, and willing to learn. then you'll recognize how to strengthen weakness's n how to build on your strengths. thats why i feel i don't have to go outside of clf to learn things......unless its grappling....

who knows?

[CLFNole]

That is more or less what I was referring to as a weakness possibly the grappling aspect. I am with you on the inside stuff there is plenty of that and we do have cum la and some grappling type stuf but of course it is not as refined as jujitsu becuase the ground isn't our primary focus.

We also incorporate many of the techniques into the early stages. In the warm-up it is common to practice various techniquess - chop choy, gwa, sow, biu and combos from right side to left side. This makes the transition in learning a form a bit easier.

[Fu-Pow]

Regardless of the style, the objective should be natural movement otherwise injury is inevitable. The same applies with efficiency of movement. It comes down to understanding the movement and how it relates to your body.

I disagree. Some styles are fundamentally more "natural" than others. Some are detrimental to health because they require your body move in an contrived way. For example, doing a wide horse stance with your toes pointed forward puts undue pressure on the outside of the knees and ankles.

However, in the Southern styles I have studied this is considered correct. Also, turning the toes in doing a bow stance puts pressure on the outside of the knee. This is a common training method in the forms of Southern Styles...not just CLF.

But we can debate this for days and you will probably disagree with me. However, this has been my experience and that's all I can really say. If our experiences are different than there is no common ground that can be reached.

I can say that my body is a lot healthier since quitting practicing CLF and only doing Taiji. My girlfriend who is a massage therapist (thanks god!) has noticed a huge release of tension in previous problem areas. And these problems were not being caused because I wasn't following the advice of my former teacher....but because I was.

[hskwarrior]

right nole,

but NEW CLF generations should be more adapt at dealing with grapplers.

like friday during class we exploring how to use our choy lee fut against someone shooting in. we took the reverse jump typically used in lion dancing as a means of gaining alot of ground during a retreat. we started dropping pek choy on the tops and backs of heads while retreating. worked great but not an end all situation.

then, my student iron ox stumbled across this which worked great too. jason my student charged in ox jumped backward intending to launch a snap kick in the air but jason was too close. but......jason got a knee right under his chin that could have knocked him out.....

it's stuff like this i feel clf needs to start developing.

[CLFNole]

I agree there are also ways to use loq gwai ma (knee down horse) with pek choys and cup choys in certain situations.

When I was talking about styles having weaknesses I was talking about all styles not specifically CLF. What I was getting at is by moving from one style to another different weaknesses in the style might present themselves.

[hskwarrior]

definately

like some have never even considered the kneel down horse as a means of blocking a leg sweep. but hey

[Infrazael]

Speechless.

Eric, you continually to leave me utterly and simply speechless with your recent threads (with each one being more awesome than the last ).

All I can say is . . . . . . well, I don't know what to say anymore.

[Infrazael]

I think you are blaming the style and the teacher, when the real blame should be on yourself. Nothing wrong with CLF as a fighting style, and if you feel it lacks certain aspects, perhaps you didn’t train with that in mind.
If you’re not going to train like a fighter, you wont learn how to fight.

+1 . . . . . . . . .

[Havick01]

I was going to stay out of this but i have to say somthing. Dont blame the teacher or the style because clf is one of the most deadly systems out there, look at the person that is training