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Thread: Should you sign a contract for instruction?

  1. #1

    Should you sign a contract for instruction?

    Here is the original article.

    Opinions?

  2. #2
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    If i am serious about training at a school then yes I would sign a contract.

  3. #3
    You can't have your cake and eat it to...... and the article has several false statements as well

    "Curb Your Enthusiasm
    The Contract is an irrevocable commitment to a full year of Karate instruction. Should you decide to quit training for any reason—injury, lack of interest, work and family obligations, et cetera—you will nevertheless be obligated to continue paying tuition until The Contract has expired."

    FALSE - state law in several states (NY included) states that a medical excuse provided by a license medical professional is legal grounds to end a contract. In addition, relocation either of yourself or the school beyond certain radius is also grounds for ending the contract

    As for stopping to go just because of your "lack of interest"? LOL, so you got a deal (contracts are always for REDUCED RATES) but you don't want to honor your end just because you are lazy?

    A contract is TWO SIDED.....

    "If you fail to honor this commitment, your delinquent account will be sent to a collection agency."

    Yes, you're an adult, and if you agree to enter into a contract you should meet it... what are you? 12?

    "The Contract allows your dojo to relocate itself ten miles away from its original location, replace its best instructors with bad ones, or shift class dates and times such that you cannot attend. Even if all these should come to pass, you will be required to submit your monthly payments until the term of The Contract is completed."

    And if my aunt had a di ck she'd be my uncle? If you go to the wrong doctor, you might die on the operating table, so you should never seek medical help?

    Most schools that use contracts are professional, they have large staff and they have lots of classes. I offer day and night, over 30 classes a week, when people say "I can't find time" it usually means "I am too lazy to come", that's REALITY

    "Some people, such as Shotokan expert Rob Redmond, advise against signing any Karate contracts whatsoever."

    Who is Rob Redmond? Does he run a school? Maybe he is that guy who can barely pay his rent and lives in his parent's basement but he's "proud not to be a sell out"

    "Yes, these contracts serve to indemnify the school against its own mismanagement, at the student’s expense."

    Or, look at it this way, the protect a school against inconsiderate students who committ to a period of time, and then aren't adult enough to keep their word

    "There aren’t many colleges or universities that accept tuition payments on a month-to-month basis."

    BINGO!

    Go to NYU and tell them you want to pay per class you attend and if you don't complete the semester you want a refund......

    We keep turing adults into irresponsible infants in this society, time to man up and be an adult
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Warrior View Post
    If i am serious about training at a school then yes I would sign a contract.
    ditto.

    But then a lot of people who are already involved in martial arts for some time will know if the school is going to be of benefit to them.

    providing its a pretty standard contract there is nothing wrong. its just a matter of course in todays world.

    of course not all schools have them, the current school i am in is just 50 bucks a month, come as you please, and a waiver for injury/death.

    of course its not high volume.
    A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
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  5. #5
    The article is far to short and does not cover much ground. lkfmdc has pretty much said all I was going to say.

    I can only add that no-one can force you to sign a contract and if they do it invalidates it.

    If you want to train at a school that requires one then just read the bloody thing and sign it if you understand and agree to the terms.

    Alot of schools are requiring contracts now as more martial arts classes become real businesses. Having a contract from the schools point of view means that money collection can be done by direct debit on a regular date with no unreasnable arguments and allow them to plan and operate their business more effectively.

    It also should make people realize that they are making a commitment for a specified period of time and that if they want your experties, they must pay for them.

    That said you should make sure you are happy with a class before signing a contract and I would be suspicious of any school that does not offer a trial period.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Most schools that use contracts are professional, they have large staff and they have lots of classes. I offer day and night, over 30 classes a week, when people say "I can't find time" it usually means "I am too lazy to come", that's REALITY
    Too true. I have had a very hard time making it to my classes lately. I talked to my Sifu about it, and he has switched me over to either 1 half hour private class or the beginners classes that I can make. (Can't go back to intermediate untill I get the go-ahead due to loss of conditioning issues) He prefers I make the beginner's classes, but if it doesn't happen, I calla nd tell him, then go in for a private.

    If you really want it, you'll find a way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    you're kidding? i would love to drink that beer just BECAUSE it's in a dead animal...i may even pick up the next dead squirrel i see and stuff a budweiser in it

  7. #7
    in a word
    no

    if a school wants to keep your business then the teachers should be up to scratch and you should be suitably impress the teachers should lead by example and if u dont want to come anymore it should be your loss not the schools
    there are only masters where there are slaves

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Wookie View Post
    5. The reason you know you're wrong: I'm John Takeshi, and I said so, beeyotch.

  8. #8

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by golden arhat View Post
    in a word
    no

    if a school wants to keep your business then the teachers should be up to scratch and you should be suitably impress the teachers should lead by example and if u dont want to come anymore it should be your loss not the schools
    OR.... maybe a sifu doesn't want to be bothered with a person who can't make any committment whatsoever to him?

    Why should I spend several hours explaining a technique to you if tomorrow you decide you'd rather go on a picnic and never do kung fu again?

    YOu just don't want to come anymore? Well, we paid our rent, we paid our staff, we showed up to teach the classes, we did all that so you could train, but you can't be bothered to get off your lazy butt so screw us?
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  9. #9
    Most mcdojos I've seen, especially the giant moneymaking ones, are very fond of contracts. That doesn’t mean that all schools that use contracts are mcdojos though.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    OR.... maybe a sifu doesn't want to be bothered with a person who can't make any committment whatsoever to him?

    Why should I spend several hours explaining a technique to you if tomorrow you decide you'd rather go on a picnic and never do kung fu again?

    YOu just don't want to come anymore? Well, we paid our rent, we paid our staff, we showed up to teach the classes, we did all that so you could train, but you can't be bothered to get off your lazy butt so screw us?
    Let’s say you get somebody who signs up for your school. Let’s say it’s a year contract. Let’s say that after a week he decides it’s not for him. Is it fair that he should pay for the year? I know I know, “He signed the contract.”
    But wouldn’t it be more logical for him just to have paid a fee at the beginning of the month and that's it. This way if he decides to leave after a week, he'll only be paying for the month. Hell, he is still paying for a month's worth of instruction when he only came to classes for a week. You make out on that deal. It seems grossly unfair to me that he pays a year's tuition for a week's worth of instruction.

  11. #11

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by The Xia View Post
    Let’s say you get somebody who signs up for your school. Let’s say it’s a year contract. Let’s say that after a week he decides it’s not for him. .
    This is why Americans suck at everything, no work ethic. What can you learn in a week? For that matter, what can you learn in a month? Do you think great musicians learned their trade in a month?

    How about the idea of sticking out something even if it doesn't give you instant gratification? How about the idea of hard work? How about the idea of being an adult for lord's sake!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Xia View Post
    It seems grossly unfair to me that he pays a year's tuition for a week's worth of instruction.
    What is "unfair" is that he isn't giving the instructor time to actually teach him something! If he, gasp, actually showed up for class for a couple of months maybe, gasp, he'd learn somethng and make some progress....

    I want to be a doctor, but is there any way I can just try out medical school for a month?
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    This is why Americans suck at everything, no work ethic. ?
    So according to you, are all Americans who excel at anything are an anomaly?
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    What can you learn in a week? For that matter, what can you learn in a month? Do you think great musicians learned their trade in a month?
    But how many people join martial arts schools to become great martial artists? Or how's about this, how many people really know what it takes to become a great martial artist? A lot of people that join martial arts schools drop out after a little while. Some find that martial arts, or that particular style or school, is not for them. I don't think it's fair to penalize them for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    How about the idea of sticking out something even if it doesn't give you instant gratification? How about the idea of hard work? How about the idea of being an adult for lord's sake!
    I don't see it as having anything to do with being an adult. You either like something or you don't. If you don't need to, why put hard work into something you don't like? Maybe that person prefers another style or school. Maybe he'll work hard at another style or school. Or maybe he just doesn't like martial arts.
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    What is "unfair" is that he isn't giving the instructor time to actually teach him something! If he, gasp, actually showed up for class for a couple of months maybe, gasp, he'd learn somethng and make some progress...
    Once again, maybe martial arts, or that particular style or school, isn't for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    I want to be a doctor, but is there any way I can just try out medical school for a month?
    There are quite a few people (including myself) that feel the education system is a total wreck. So I don't think that the martial arts world should strive to emulate such a thing.

    On a side note, do you really have to give a "thumbs down" to something just because you disagree with it? To me it comes off as antagonistic.
    Last edited by The Xia; 04-30-2007 at 01:27 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post

    I want to be a doctor, but is there any way I can just try out medical school for a month?
    No but I'm sure you could do some college courses in anatomy or similar and then commit to 7 years (or however long it takes in America) training to be a doctor.

    As I said before I have no problems with signing up for a contract but I would want to try out the place first for a few weeks. If they sign and decide to leave after a few more weeks then it is their problem.

  14. #14
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    This is why Americans suck at everything, no work ethic.
    Is that supposed to be sarcastic??

    If not, nice way to rubber stamp such a absurd statement.

  15. #15
    I, like anyone who has been in the industry for a while, have seen so many bad clients that I understand the need to protect your interests. Sorry, there are a lot of irresponsible and childish people who can't make a simple committment, don't want to take any responsibility and want their mistakes to come out of your pocket.

    Here are two classic examples

    I have two options, you can join for a contract one year at $150 a month or you can joint open ended and cancel with 30 days notice anytime you want for $200 a month. Guy wanted to save money so he signed up for the contract. After 6 months he wanted to quit. I actually gave him an option. He paid $50 per month than those on open eneded, so if he paid me $600 (6 months he came at $50 less than an open eneded) I'd cancel him. That's still cheaper than the $900 left on his contract. He just wanted to cancel, not pay the difference. So he tried to avoid paying off the rest for a few months. Then he wanted to buy a house so he had to clear his credit report, so he had to pay the rest of the contract PLUS the collection charges.

    even better

    A woman was on an open ended and cancelled. HOwever, she had been kind of lazy and had only come a few times a month, so she tried to charge back on her credit card the 4 months SHE HAD ACTUALLY USED. I use written agreements even on open ended precisely for this sort of reason.

    People need to be adults, but so few are.....
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

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