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Thread: charles mattera ussd get his 9th

  1. #1

    charles mattera ussd get his 9th

    Where did charles mattera get 9th degree?
    He broke away from fred villari in 1988 as a 7th. So who gave him his ninth?

  2. #2
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    The million dollar questions are:

















    Who? What?

    Who the hell cares, girlie?

  3. #3
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    What does that really mean?

    Why should anyone care how many little stripes are on the belt of another human being? (I have some notches on mine, from Burlington Coat Factory, mostly because I was trying to add little holes to make the belt wearable when I lost weight)

    Teacher means something, if the teacher is competent.
    Master would mean something, if it meant that the individual had brought up students to teacher level.

    Both titles would only mean something if they had something to teach which requires them. Probably more for social reasons than anything else.

    Rank beyond 'membership' merely denotes positions within an organization, more than anything else. Arguments about rank conveying or recognizing skill seem to be extremely poorly founded. Rank based skill measured by what yardstick?

    Real ability to perform the stated skills for the system and the ability to pass them along are much better measurements to apply to martial skills.

    If the individuals rank suddenly meant nothing once they left an organization, then what purpose did the rank serve in the first place? Nothing? Doesnt that reduce the value of anyone from that organization of that rank or lower? Of any rank?

    Not a defense of any 'sudden increase in ranks' which have happened throughout history of the martial arts, but really: why is it important?

    Or perhaps more specifically, why should it be important to me? Is there a reason it should be important to anyone?
    just a few pennies from a pig.....
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    Nick Cerios promoted him up to 8th Degree.

    When he broke off Villari, he basically cutoff that lineage and approached Nick Cerios directly. He was then promoted to 8th. I personally saw Prof Nick Cerios promote Mattera to 8th during a demo while he was in Irvine. You can still see Demascos and Matteras name under Cerios Kempo on any Kempo Lineage chart out there and on Prof Nick Cerios website. However, Prof. Cerios passed away, so I am not sure about his 9th. I actually left the system at that point too. A few years later is when Mattera went to Shaolin Temple with USSD and was rumored to have made a very large donation and somehow got an Honorary Abbott title of some kind. I am assuming that is the reasoning behind the 9th and 10th degree promotions.
    Last edited by xcakid; 05-14-2007 at 08:05 AM.
    Master of Shaolin I-Ching Bu Ti, GunGoPow and I Hung Wei Lo styles.

    I am seeking sparring partner. Any level. Looking for blondes or redhead. 5'2" to 5'9". Between 115-135 weight class. Females between 17-30 only need apply. Will extensively work on grappling.

  5. #5
    cjurakpt Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by xcakid View Post
    A few years later is when Mattera went to Shaolin Temple with USSD and was rumored to have made a very large donation and somehow got an Honorary Abbott title of some kind. I am assuming that is the reasoning behind the 9th and 10th degree promotions.
    THIS is the critical issue that many people outside of TCMA world don't get: in the USSD schools I've seen (2 on Long Island, I think D'Amasco is the head guy?) they have these photo montages about the USSD school going back to their "roots" in China and being honored as the true descendants of Shaolin and all that; now, any one who knows anything about Chinese culture in regards to that sort of thing knows that if you show up woth 500 students each with a hung bao (red envelope w/$$$), the abbott or who ever is going to go to not insignificant lengths to make sure that your trip was worth the troule - want your own engraved pillar in the Shaolin Garden? Noooo problem. The problem is that, in the American mind, this sort of honor is based on merit - if you have that, you must have earned it based on your skill and authenticity, whatnot; so, they play up this angle like they are the chosen few, and use it as a means of reinforcing their ridiculous claims about being a Shaolin based school

    of course, anyone with a background in legitimate TCMA will see it for what it is right away...

  6. #6
    I agree with cjurakpt.
    They show up at the temple every few years with a bunch of$$$$$
    and wallaa instant certification for an art they don't teach.

  7. #7

    But who is to say....

    ...that they do not teach Shaolin at the advanced levels and in private?? You would have to know everything about the system the masters/ instructors, and Charles Mattera to know this for sure.

    The only one that really knows is him.

    It is easy to look in from the outside and pass judgements without knowing all the facts and with the limited information available whether USSD or CM does or does not have said knowledge or skill.

    Once again I am not part of USSD I am just attmepting to fair and unbiased.

    Personally I have attended a few of their classes and there are many skilled martial artist that teach and practice there ,but I have not seen anything that resembles CMA.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    ...that they do not teach Shaolin at the advanced levels and in private?? You would have to know everything about the system the masters/ instructors, and Charles Mattera to know this for sure.

    The only one that really knows is him.

    It is easy to look in from the outside and pass judgements without knowing all the facts and with the limited information available whether USSD or CM does or does not have said knowledge or skill.

    Once again I am not part of USSD I am just attmepting to fair and unbiased.

    Personally I have attended a few of their classes and there are many skilled martial artist that teach and practice there ,but I have not seen anything that resembles CMA.
    A lot of the forms taught after BB Fred Villari created. I have all the material up to 5th dan, and I'm a 2nd. Charles Mattera is good at what he knows...Kempo.

  9. #9
    cjurakpt Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    ...that they do not teach Shaolin at the advanced levels and in private??
    because that is an inherently implausible argument;

    I mean, they could just as well be teaching Advanced Underwater Basket Weaving - how would you know? on what basis can you discern what they choose to keep secret? so you can only go by what you see: they claim to teach a Shaolin based system, but nothing that is available to public scrutiny confirms or even suggests that this is the case; anyway, they state clearly that what they teach is from Shaolin - they do not qualify it by saying it's only at the advanced levels; either way, they are being deceptive: either they teach no Shaolin at all, or they only teach it in private but still bill the publicaly seen stuff as something other than what it is

    besides, what's the point about keeping it secret? do people still buy into the whole silliness about secret techniques and magical forms that will catapult you into another level of being? 20 yars ago, you could still get away with doing something and calling it something else, and no one would call you on it, because the comparative info wasn't available; these days, anyone can take a look and see what traditional Shaolin arts look like, and can probably walk down the street and study it to boot;

    so unfortunately, your exegesis is far from compelling

  10. #10
    cjurakpt Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sk girl View Post
    I agree with cjurakpt.
    They show up at the temple every few years with a bunch of$$$$$
    and wallaa instant certification for an art they don't teach.
    and again, from a Chinese cultural perspective, this is not inherently a big deal - anyone from the TCMA community knows this for what it is - it's like the old boys network - it shows you've done your bit to spread it around, supporting your fellow MA brothers - sooner or later it comes back to you in similar form; it's about public face - you scratch my back, I scratch yours; the problem is that a westerner sees it and takes it purely at face value and superimpose their own romantic notions about TCMA onto it

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    ...that they do not teach Shaolin at the advanced levels and in private?? You would have to know everything about the system the masters/ instructors, and Charles Mattera to know this for sure.
    I was an instructor and was ranked a 2nd Black (Nidan) in that system. I have the material for my next degree (3rd) The form are CMA. I was taught a dragon form, not part of the curriculum. We do that a lot.

    Not really Shaolin. Although there is more Kung Fu concepts and CMA form. It starts to move aways from what Villari taught. This was back in early mid nineties. As I understand it, Mattera/Taylor and the other higher black belts, has made further revisions to the Black Belt material. They actually have drunken boxing forms now.
    Master of Shaolin I-Ching Bu Ti, GunGoPow and I Hung Wei Lo styles.

    I am seeking sparring partner. Any level. Looking for blondes or redhead. 5'2" to 5'9". Between 115-135 weight class. Females between 17-30 only need apply. Will extensively work on grappling.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt View Post
    because that is an inherently implausible argument;

    I mean, they could just as well be teaching Advanced Underwater Basket Weaving - how would you know? on what basis can you discern what they choose to keep secret? so you can only go by what you see: they claim to teach a Shaolin based system, but nothing that is available to public scrutiny confirms or even suggests that this is the case; anyway, they state clearly that what they teach is from Shaolin - they do not qualify it by saying it's only at the advanced levels; either way, they are being deceptive: either they teach no Shaolin at all, or they only teach it in private but still bill the publicaly seen stuff as something other than what it is

    besides, what's the point about keeping it secret? do people still buy into the whole silliness about secret techniques and magical forms that will catapult you into another level of being? 20 yars ago, you could still get away with doing something and calling it something else, and no one would call you on it, because the comparative info wasn't available; these days, anyone can take a look and see what traditional Shaolin arts look like, and can probably walk down the street and study it to boot;

    so unfortunately, your exegesis is far from compelling
    I am just saying it is possible . If you read completely what I wrote you would see my position.

    What is Shaolin to you??How do you know what Shaolin really is?? How do you know that what they teach is not Shaolin ?? There are many off shoots of Shaolin.
    Most of what is taught as shaolin in China is not and most of what is taught here is a joke. As far as traditional shaolin, what is taught and perpetuated , for the most part, that is media propaganda. At one time maybe parts of what is force fed to the public was taught and practice but a lot of it is fantasy.

    Basics are basics. You do not have to teach them in the same exact format as every other school to get the same results . Have you been involved in their program?? hopw do you know they do not tell their students this?? I know for a fact they do , at least the instructors I have met.

    I know the history of USSD . I understand that they taught one thing and now they teach that in addition to something else . What is wrong with that?I have not read anywhere that they are dening this. So they made their own hybrid or are cross training or MMA whatever.

    To me it would not be a matter of keeping it a secret and all that it it is about people learning and earn the priveledge of being taught Shaolin. I do not know if this is the case with them but to me this would stand to reason. It is only deceptive because you have a limited view and only see things how you want.

    Shaolin is not about a geographical location, a set of forms, or a uniform it is a philosophy and a way of life.

  13. #13
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    The USSD Shaolin connection was pure marketing spin. Gene said Yongxin did it for a free trip to the States and once he got what he wanted he started severing the connections.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    I am just saying it is possible . If you read completely what I wrote you would see my position.

    What is Shaolin to you??How do you know what Shaolin really is?? How do you know that what they teach is not Shaolin ?? There are many off shoots of Shaolin.
    Most of what is taught as shaolin in China is not and most of what is taught here is a joke. As far as traditional shaolin, what is taught and perpetuated , for the most part, that is media propaganda. At one time maybe parts of what is force fed to the public was taught and practice but a lot of it is fantasy.

    Basics are basics. You do not have to teach them in the same exact format as every other school to get the same results . Have you been involved in their program?? hopw do you know they do not tell their students this?? I know for a fact they do , at least the instructors I have met.

    I know the history of USSD . I understand that they taught one thing and now they teach that in addition to something else . What is wrong with that?I have not read anywhere that they are dening this. So they made their own hybrid or are cross training or MMA whatever.

    To me it would not be a matter of keeping it a secret and all that it it is about people learning and earn the priveledge of being taught Shaolin. I do not know if this is the case with them but to me this would stand to reason. It is only deceptive because you have a limited view and only see things how you want.

    Shaolin is not about a geographical location, a set of forms, or a uniform it is a philosophy and a way of life.
    Sorry pal I dont buy it

    I have up to 45 shaolin defensive maneuvers(VILLARI COMBOS) and all the forms up to 3rd dan AND THERE IS NO SHAOLIN IN THE FORMS OR THE TECHNIQUES!!!!!!

    By the way changing the name of your Techniques to make it more marketable is WRONG!!

    Lying and misleading your students and instructors about what they are learning is WRONG!

    Gee sounds like a great place to train!

    Lying and ripping off people those are traits I want my kids to learn so I'll just send them to ussd to learn from the best.
    Last edited by sk girl; 05-17-2007 at 01:11 PM.

  15. #15
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    sleazy is as sleazy does.

    "westerner" doesn't apply to anything in this "global" world we live in.

    you either have integrity or you don't. It's very clear.
    Because something is accepted doesn't mean it is right. It just means people are willing to live with x amount of dirt in their lives. They still know it's dirt.

    recognize.

    Kung Fu is good for you.

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