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Thread: ussd claim they teach shaolin

  1. #1

    ussd claim they teach shaolin

    USSD claim they teach shaolin, but where is it?
    I didn't know pinons and katas 1-6 were shaolin?

    Two man fist set is an ed parker form which Fred Villari got back in the 60 training with him.

    So where's the shaolin?
    Is Charles mattera lying to all his students about what they are learning?

    Then what else is he lying about?

  2. #2
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    yea....so does other styles claim they teach shaolin or is shaolin. You never really know what you are geting into. All I can say research research research before you decide to join a MA school.

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    well technically karate came from some form of southern shaolin and southern shaolin came form shaolin and ussd crap came form karate, so technically if you want to be a a dousche bag it is shaolin.

    but we all know its karate or kenpo
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk girl View Post
    USSD claim they teach shaolin, but where is it?
    I didn't know pinons and katas 1-6 were shaolin?

    Two man fist set is an ed parker form which Fred Villari got back in the 60 training with him.

    So where's the shaolin?
    Is Charles mattera lying to all his students about what they are learning?

    Then what else is he lying about?
    there may likely be shaolin material that is present somewhere in the curriculum...but you never know how much, or how much it has changed from when it was first absorbed, or when you will actually learn it.

    if what you really want is shaolin, i wouldnt really be looking for it there. but i guess we are generally all stuck where we live so you have to go for what you have near unfortunately. there is plenty of shaolin in the states, you just have to be in the right area, or get lucky and find someone who has it but doesnt promote it so much.

    personally i dont train ussd so im not too sure.
    A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinlueb View Post
    well technically karate came from some form of southern shaolin and southern shaolin came form shaolin and ussd crap came form karate, so technically if you want to be a a dousche bag it is shaolin.

    but we all know its karate or kenpo
    lol


    that was a good one
    A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
    ~Sima Qian

    Master pain, or pain will master you.
    ~PangQuan

    "Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
    ~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching

    You know you want to click me!!

  6. #6
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    people claim alot of things. McDonalds says their burgers are 100% beef, yet when I make a burger at home, it doesn't taste at all alike.

  7. #7
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    Well Mattera did change the Black Belt curriculum to a more Kung Fu style. More so than any other Shaolin Kempo styles out there(Emperado's Kajukenbo, Ralph Castro or Villari)

    More like Won Hop Kuen Do style that Al Dacascos started when he split off the Kempo lineage.

    USSD may suck at teaching the art cuase the business aspect dilutes it. However, the art itself is good IMHO. They just need to stop churning out "black belts" so that they can offer more schools. They need to stop letting 1st Degree balck blets issued after 2yrs of study, and no other prior exp in MA, be chief instructors.

    Is it Shaolin? NO. In my experience of Shaolin, USSD's training method differs to that of Shaolin training. ONe in particular is that USSD does not emphasize stance training and proper transition drills. Is it Kung Fu? Not in the color belt stages. However, the concepts changes, which I believe confuses the heck out of any student if this was thier first experience in MA. Again another fault in teaching method. Anyone with any background with CMA will be able to pick up the transition. Other tend to do CMA using Japenese MA foundation.

    As I have said before. It is as close as you are going to get to CMA with an American derived system.

    If you look at the roots of the system, you can better understand it and what is being taught to you. The main person in this system is James Mitose. If you believe the story, his MA was handed down by family directly from a Shaolin Monk. Nevertheless it is Japanese MA akin to Shorin Ryu. He then handed this down to Kwai Sun Chow. Chinese decent with a background in Chinese boxing. His Shaolin link has been in dispute, so I am not even going to bring that out. But the man can fight. So there you have the Kung Fu/Karate explaination.

    Fast fwd to the Ken(m)po contemporaries:

    Ed Parker: Took out the circular movement, low stance, etc. that he deemed were to difficult for the American body to adapt. He added a bit of biology with rigard to motion and body mechanics into the art. It turned out looking more like fancy hand waving in my opinion.

    Adriano Emperado et al: Took this art and added bits an pieces of other Asian arts that was lacking. Karate, Judo/Juijitsu, Kenpo, Chinese Boxing. There you have Kajukenbo. Later on Gary Forbach, who took over the reigns, when to China to study more CMA and incorporated it into the system.

    Kwai Sun Chow: Kaharo Ho Kempo. This is probably the truest art of Kempo out there. Undiluted.

    Then we go to offshoots:

    Al Dacascos: Created Won Hop Kuen Do and added more CMA into the system. This is probably the most Kung Fu-like out of all the Kempo offshoots. If you ever see their forms in competition, you would swear it was modern Wushu.

    Ralph Castro: Kept more of the American Kenpo of parker however, took in more of CMA into the system.

    Nick Cerios: Instructor to Villari which, Mattera denies ever being a student of Villari but he was. Regardless, much like Castro kept the American Kenpo concept. He did change the forms however, more Karate in the color belts. And soft in the higher belts although still not Kung Fu.

    He had 2 offshots. Villari and Mattera. Villari schools kept the Nick Cerios concept although Villari added a few forms. Matter broke off and kept much of the lower belt curriculum. Once USSD was established, he changed the black belt curriculum. There were a few black belt from other CMA arts and he assimilated their forms and concepts within the system. For example, I have a few forms I learned while there: Staff and Spear form from N Shaolin LF, Straight sword form from CLF and a broudsword form from N Shoalin.

    Hope that explains it. I am by no means an expert. However, I have spent nearly 8yrs. in the Kempo world. Master Ralph Castro then Villari then eventually Mattera's USSD.
    Last edited by xcakid; 05-15-2007 at 01:03 PM.
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    Yea but therein lies the problem. Karate itself mainly derives from Japan. Kung Fu hails from China. Two different countries and in my opinion two different styles. Yea sure some can use the "shaolin blanket" that shaolin has influenced all other martial art styles but when schools go around saying they are teaching kung fu but wear karate gis and have a karate style ranking system is absurd.

    I am not sure if I exactly agree with the mixing of MA styles. I think there are new fighting theories and systems that can be pioneered but when they are tossed out there and dubbed "shaolin" is insane.

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    Yea sure some can use the "shaolin blanket" that shaolin has influenced all other martial art styles but when schools go around saying they are teaching kung fu but wear karate gis and have a karate style ranking system is absurd
    Also, a bit disrespectful to the karate/kenpo community, or whatever the majority of the art is derivef from I think. Adding 5% of a Chinese style doesn't suddenly negate the 95% that's from different roots. If you do all karate or kenpo barehand and basics then doing a few weapon forms from various Chinese styles isn't going to change much.

  10. #10
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    Having taught both an old Tracy's version of Kenpo and FV "Shaolin (ugh) Kempo" and being a Hung Kuen practitioner for over twenty years, I can say with authority that, one-Chow's Kenpo is much closer to Hung Kuen, and Villari's is an offshoot of Cerio, which like a xerox of a xerox, is very, very far from original kenpo, and completely unrelated to Kung-Fu. The forms are called Pinans and are so far from Pinan Kata, one would think he learned them from a book. Not only are sequences "different" but in some cases, movement is backwards. They also have forms called-get this-"Ancient Chinese Katas 1,2,3,4,5,6" yeah, I'm sure that's real. They refer to techniques as "Kenpos" and "Jiu-Jitsus" , fer chrissakes, at least say "Kenpo techniques" it's laughable, if it weren't so painful.
    -you should've stayed with Ralph Castro-he trained directly with Chow, alongside Ed Parker. You would've had something real.

  11. #11

    Uuuhhh??

    Quote Originally Posted by Songshan View Post
    Yea but therein lies the problem. Karate itself mainly derives from Japan. Kung Fu hails from China. Two different countries and in my opinion two different styles. Yea sure some can use the "shaolin blanket" that shaolin has influenced all other martial art styles but when schools go around saying they are teaching kung fu but wear karate gis and have a karate style ranking system is absurd.

    I am not sure if I exactly agree with the mixing of MA styles. I think there are new fighting theories and systems that can be pioneered but when they are tossed out there and dubbed "shaolin" is insane.
    Aside from all the other BS, what does the uniform or belt system have to do with determining whether or not you do kung fu or karate or Shaolin or not?? many socalled TCMA schools have adopted belt / sash ranking systems, how does this make them any less traditional or authentic??

    By the way most Japanese Karate comes from China. The original ideogram for Karate meant "china hand".

    Most of the people on this board have a no idea what true CMA or Kung Fu is. They get these ideas and images in their head from movies, media, and their instructors . Most people base their opinion on non intrinsic values( i.e. outward appearences , terminology, etc.) Why does any of this really matter ??

    I have been doing Shaolin / Wudang arts for over 15 years and I can tell you that for application purposes all that flowery, soft crap that most of you do will get your @$$es handed to you in a real fight.

    Shaolin and kung fu on the whole has been turned into just a form of exercise and performance art and has no true practical application. I often go to these so called traditional kung fu schools and watch them spar and practice application, it is a joke.

    I am not a fan of USSD ,nor am I defending them, but some of you need to get a clue and get of your high horse, because before too long someone will come along and knock you off!!

    And most likely it is going to be a MMA guy or someone from USSD.

    Kung Fu ( martial arts) is for the intended effect, for the enemy or the opponent to be dispatched in the quickest , most efficient manner possible without any wasted time and effort.

  12. #12

    oh and by the way

    Shaolin and Kung fu are based on philosophy, basic stance trainig and practical application, and not whether you use english , japanese or chinese terminology or whether you have belts , gis , lion dances or specific forms, all this simple does not matter does not matter.

    Get a clue people and start living in reality.

    Personallly I think that people should stop refering to CMA as Kung Fu because even if you practice another martial art and have put time and effort or hard work you still essentially practice Kung Fu.
    Last edited by tattooedmonk; 05-16-2007 at 12:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    Shaolin and Kung fu are based on philosophy, basic stance trainig and practical application, and not whether you use english , japanese or chinese terminology or whether you have belts , gis , lion dances or specific forms, all this simple does not matter does not matter.

    Get a clue people and start living in reality.

    Personallly I think that people should stop refering to CMA as Kung Fu because even if you practice another martial art and have put time and effort or hard work you still essentially practice Kung Fu.
    I agree. Isn't it true that the traditional Masters of CMA practiced medicince, martial arts and the fine arts?

  14. #14
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    um, no. They were killers, with mind and body honed to deadly perfection. But not a sage, not Kwai Chang Caine. Wake up Dorothy. Do some real research. Look up who the real CMAists were. Not the ones from the Chinese folk dramas.

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    that being said, many of us still try to follow the way of the scholar warrior, and yes, Dorothy, I too still hold a warm part of my heart for David Carradine.
    (But NOT Ralph Machio!)

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