shaolin kempo karate

[pruningmantis]

just wanted to ask the board members if they consider fred villari's shaolin kempo karate a legitimate shaolin art?

[Brad]

From what I've seen (if it was that particular branch) it seemed more an offshoot of karate than anything close to most "Shaolin" styles. I've seen some kempo forms and done a couple myself, but don't really know what branches they all came from (including what I did).

Looking at the training history he claims, the kungfu portion seems dubious (or he got bad translation for what he was learning?). For example, Shaolin temple boxing with no stated lineage is a pretty generic term, and Chin Na is not the "secret art of White Tiger" but a type of technique found in most all Chinese martial arts. The only Chinese White Tiger style I can think of belongs to Doo Wai (which I think originates from Emei not Shaolin... I don't exactly trust Doo Wai either so...). Where I read about it: http://www.villari.com/fvhistory.htm

Personally, at first glance, I think it's about as "Shaolin" as say... Shotokan Karate or Tae Kwon Do. Part may trace back to Shaolin in some twisted up round about way, but not really enough to be considered a "Shaolin" system to most people.

[Ou Ji]

Personally, at first glance, I think it's about as "Shaolin" as say... Shotokan Karate or Tae Kwon Do. Part may trace back to Shaolin in some twisted up round about way, but not really enough to be considered a "Shaolin" system to most people.

Funny you should say that because the Shoto in Shotokan refers to it's Shaolin roots. Although Kenpo is a Japanese version of Chinese Kung Fu it looks and feels more like Karate.

The problem is how do you recognize the roots of your art without looking like you're making false claims?

[kwaichang]

The word Shoto is not related to Shaolin but refers to Gichin Funakoshi's pen name as a writer the word Kan is loosely translated as house or The House of Shoto. When Gichin Funakoshi the founder of Shoto Kan later to be known as JKA Karate first learned his martial art in Okinawa the Kara Kanji was translated as China Hand or Kara Te. When he brought it to Japan in the early 1920's he changed the Character to what is known as empty, hand. Only relation to China is the original character and its origins . KC

[joedoe]

Funny you should say that because the Shoto in Shotokan refers to it's Shaolin roots. Although Kenpo is a Japanese version of Chinese Kung Fu it looks and feels more like Karate.

The problem is how do you recognize the roots of your art without looking like you're making false claims?

Perhaps you are mixing it up with Shorin Ryu?

[David Jamieson]

Shorin is indeed the japanese version of Shaolin. In fact, one and the same wordwise that is.

The okinawan styles are said to have a closer connection to the imported chinese martial arts than what was manifest later on the mainland.

Goju (hard/soft), another famous okinawan style is said to be based on shaolin 5 animals.

As for how to identify your art with it's origin, I think it is not so bad to put it into the style name, although I am not certain that one can blatantly call it 'x' when it has clearly become something unto itself and therefor would be more practical and honest to call it 'y'.

If there is a direct transferance of methods that can be demonstrated across both, then great, but if there is significant alterations from the origin, then that is a whoe different layer of the onion and the origins can be noted elsewhere and off the main signage.

just my opinion and it is certainly a subjective one...like any opinion.

[joedoe]

Shorin is indeed the japanese version of Shaolin. In fact, one and the same wordwise that is.

The okinawan styles are said to have a closer connection to the imported chinese martial arts than what was manifest later on the mainland.

Goju (hard/soft), another famous okinawan style is said to be based on shaolin 5 animals.

...

Is it 5 animals or 5 ancestors? Or Fukien white crane? God I am so confused!

[Ou Ji]

The word Shoto is not related to Shaolin but refers to Gichin Funakoshi's pen name as a writer

Guess I got some bad info off another forum. Although it was Funakoshi's pen name I'm still curious where it came from and it's meaning.

I had read on another forum that Shoto was a reference to Shaolin.

[David Jamieson]

Is it 5 animals or 5 ancestors? Or Fukien white crane? God I am so confused!

when i was learning isshinryu back in the day, a system comprised of shorin and goju mostly, sensei made the connection with 5 animals style. the goju portion was very 'tiger' in its ways and there was a lot of hard ass conditioning associated with the goju, where the shorin stuff was about flow. They complimented each other and were so different from the big karate style of shotokan.

[BM2]

http://www.gichinfunakoshi.com/gichin.htm
One hell of a man.

[Ou Ji]

Funakoshi was a man of Tao. He placed no emphasis on competitions, record breaking or championships. He placed emphasis on individual selfperfection. He believe in the common decency and respect that one human being owed to another. He was the master of masters.

Serious words.

[SKK]

It IS a Shaolin art, however only in the adavancced ranks. This is taught this way because an American can not walk in off the street and take Shaolin. Shaolin must be started at a young age, unless you'd rather spend your first 10 years training by standing in a Crane stance for 30 minutes.

See one of the higher Masters move (perhaps by taking a look at the DVD set) and they look NOTHING like karate. Fred Villari himself spent more times studying Chinese arts than Japanese.

It is just taught different than most shaolin schools in the begining ranks, because all a white belt is capable of really learning too fast is block and punch... so they teach block and punch.

[B-Rad]

This is taught this way because an American can not walk in off the street and take Shaolin.

Sure they can. In fact, they do it all the time.

[TenTigers]

Villari's is as close to Shaolin as paint by the numbers is to fine art. I think I should know, I worked for them, trained with their "Higher Masters", taught their "art" , before I got simply frustrated with the phonyness, and I also have been involved in real Martial Arts for over thirty years, and have been teaching "real" Chinese Martial Arts for over twenty of them.
I also would be very interested in knowing the difference between Chinese Boxing, and Kung-Fu, because he lists these as two separate arts.

[richard sloan]

It IS a Shaolin art, however only in the adavancced ranks. This is taught this way because an American can not walk in off the street and take Shaolin. Shaolin must be started at a young age, unless you'd rather spend your first 10 years training by standing in a Crane stance for 30 minutes.

sounds like a sales pitch and pretty fallacious.