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Thread: Ark Yuey Wong- list of lineage/style holders?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Anestasi View Post
    .As for this thing called splashing hands,I never heard master Wong talk about it.I learned every thing that he new as that is what he told me at that time. He also taught me Dim Muk,I still have the charts that he drew & marked etc. I hope this helps you all.

    Sifu Jim

    Hello Sifu Jim,
    According to Tiny Lefiti, GM Ark Wong kept his knowledge of Splashing Hands secret. It may be that Tiny Lefiti was the only person whom he passed Splashing Hands to.

    When Tiny came to him with his letter of introduction, GM Wong first denied that he knew Splashing Hands!

    Here is some info: http://www.littlenineheaven.com/spteacher.html

    Before he left Taiwan he asked his teacher where he could finish his training in Splashing Hands. His teacher gave him a letter to give to Master Ark Yuey Wong asking him to accept Tiny as his student. At first Master Wong refused claiming he knew nothing of the style. However, with Tiny's persistence he was finally accepted.

    According to this page, Splashing Hands is a complete system, not just a technique. It has basics, short sequences and 9 forms.
    http://www.littlenineheaven.com/splash.html


    Here you can see Tiny Lefiti demoing the Splashing Hands Combination Form.

    Last edited by kal; 06-07-2007 at 01:06 AM.

  2. #32
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    splashing hands;

    Perhaps you can tell me what time this was taught to him & just where he learned this style of " slashing hands" was taught to him by master Wong?. I would like to verify this claim. I'm not trying to say that he didn't learn from master Wong.
    Master taught me a 10 set form called slapping hands , they had very fast movements and very hard strikes,and were very powerful. I was just about a live in student as I was with him almost everyday.

    Just curious , Thanks Sifu Jim.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Anestasi View Post
    Perhaps you can tell me what time this was taught to him & just where he learned this style of " slashing hands" was taught to him by master Wong?. I would like to verify this claim.

    Hi Sifu Jim.

    I'm afraid I can't help with exact dates. However, Tiny Lefiti said he first learned Splashing Hand in Taiwan from General Wong. This must have been in the 1950s.
    After that, the general told him that the only other teacher of Splashing Hands was GM Ark Wong in the USA. He then gave Lefiti a letter of introduction to Ark Wong. So this was possibly late 1950s or early to mid 1960s.

    Sorry I can't be of more help, but you can find the sources here:

    http://www.kungfupower.com/splashinghands.html


    Master taught me a 10 set form called slapping hands , they had very fast movements and very hard strikes,and were very powerful.
    That sounds very interesting. Just so I don't misunderstand you, how do you define a "set" and a "form"? Is a set simply a shorter sequence? The reason I ask is because Splashing Hands has 10 short combat sequences called "Browns" which are sometimes linked together to make one long sequence or form. I wonder if this is possibly what you learned.

    I've found some footage of these 10 Browns linked together:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPMsj2B5Fw

    Does this look at all like the slapping hands form you learned?

    Here you can see some of the Browns individually:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NQ1l5fAuqk

  4. #34
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    Splashing hands

    Hi Kai
    The slapping hand set's are short series of movements, usually done with a partner only after the student has become proficient. A form [ kata ] is a long sequence of set's together.
    I looked at those video's and I found the lighting was not very good to see all of the moves. The stances looked like Choy Gar style but not exactly, the kicks are different Some of the blocks look similar. Hard to see when he has his back to you, if you have a video that breaks it down I would like to see it , you wouldn't need to send all of the set's,just key moves.Maybe we can get to the bottom of this.

    I hope this helps you.
    Sifu Jim.

  5. #35
    Thanks for the info, Sifu Jim.
    I've been searching the web for more details and any video footage.
    You might find these sites interesting as they go into more detail about the history of Splashing Hand and the relationship between Lefiti and GM Ark Wong.

    http://www.manchesterkungfu.com/spla...ng%20hands.doc

    http://www.manchesterkungfu.com/FAQ/...g%20Hands.html

    The second link gives the Chinese name and characters of the system.

    I also found some clearer footage on the link below:
    http://www.manchesterkungfu.com/footage/footage.html
    There's a nice two-person application of Brown shown.

    Finally, I also found this syllabus. Is there any overlap with what you learned from GM Ark Wong.
    http://www.manchesterkungfu.com/syll...dsyllabus.html
    Last edited by kal; 06-08-2007 at 12:30 AM.

  6. #36
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    Talking Splashing hands

    Kal; Hello , Well after watching those video's some would not respond, but I got a good look at the ones I could.I have come to the conclusion that there are some movements that come from a few basic forms, like the small cross, butterfly form and possibility a few others. Master Wong's style was based on circles both large and small, also the stances were very strong and the heel was rarely raised from the floor unless you were in a cross stance or drop door stance. I saw some straight legged kicks master Wong would not have taught this type kick.There is a closing salute that we used in one of video's. There are some techniques from our system but they have been changed, altered. This was probably done to flow with Mr.Lafiti own style.Back in 1964 we opened the Wah Que Studio of Chinese Kungfu,Everyone was welcome, as the school got going we had alot of people taklng pictures of are basic forms so how those pictures were used I do not know. As I opened & closed the school every day, you might say I just about lived there.During this time we had many different students that came & left . Most could not take the Horse stance training,This was away of weeding out the ones that could not . We also gave alot of demonstrations in those days all were filmed. Getting back to the subject,There are seems to be a lot of mixtures of different styles mixed together. That is not a bad thing if I works use it. And if he used parts of Master Wong's system as primus Thats o.k. with me.

    Regards Sifu Jim

  7. #37
    Thanks again Sifu Jim.
    What you say about never raising the heel struck me as interesting, because Splashing Hands seems to have a LOT of raising the heel in their "shuffling" footwork. They also train on a painted box on the floor.
    I'm getting more and more puzzled aboutthe origins of this Splashing hands style. Did you ever meet a person called Tiny Lefiti at GM Wong's school? Since you were there so much time and opening and closing the place, I'm sure you would have known all of GM Wong's students. Especially someone who came with a letter of recommendation from Taiwan.
    I'd also like to get to the bottom of where this Splashing Hands comes from.
    If it didn't come from GM Ark Wong then where exactly did it come from?

  8. #38
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    Smile More questions

    kal, The lifting of heels may come from Kenpo Karate, Im not sure.
    Painting of the foot work on the was introduced by me with the approval Master Wong. It was a very good traing tool. Once the student was shown how to use it made my job as student teacher a lot easier.
    As to Mr.Tiny Lefiti I do not remember meeting him or teaching him.If someone else can refresh my memory please do. I started in 1958 With Master Wong so alot of time has past.
    Kal are you going to enroll in that style? or are you just interested?What are you studing now?.

    Regards Sifu Jim

  9. #39
    Hello sifu Jim,
    Yeah I find the style looks quite fascinating and I'm thinking of possibly enrolling on a live-in training course in Caliornia's retreat. Depends on the money though
    I remember reading that Ed Parker Kenpo was actually developed (in part) from Splashing Hands, not the other way around. Same thing with Limalama.
    The plot thickens!

  10. #40
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    Who Know

    Interesting discussion .....

    Steeve

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeve View Post
    Who Know

    Interesting discussion .....

    Steeve
    Yes, it is. And it's still a bit mysterious exactly where this style came from.
    Who else is left from those original GM Ark Wong school days that may be able to shed some light on it? I wonder if Seming Ma would know. He's GM Ark Wong's grandson isn't he?
    Ed Parker and Lefiti apparently were friends (both being Polynesian descent) so Parker might have been a good person to ask as well, but sadly he is deceased.

    I'd like to get to the bottom of this whole thing. I know, of course, that practically al CMA have origin stories that are more legend than anything else, for example the story of Ng Mui and Wing Chun or Chang San Fend and tai chi chuan. That's par for the course. But in the case of Splashing Hands, we are only talking about 40-50 years ago and so there must still be people from those days who can confirm or deny the story, especially when such a well-known master like Ark Wong is involved.
    Last edited by kal; 06-09-2007 at 05:10 PM.

  12. #42
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    I wonder if Seming Ma would know. He's GM Ark Wong's grandson isn't he?


    Yes He is

    and no splashing hands in Ng ga kuen ....but some ng ga kuen in the splashing hands of Sifu Tiny...

    Steeve

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeve View Post
    and no splashing hands in Ng ga kuen ....but some ng ga kuen in the splashing hands of Sifu Tiny...

    Steeve
    Thanks Steeve. Can you give some more details about that please?
    Ng ga kuen (AFAIK) is a Southern style, right? Yet Splashing Hands is said to be Northern. So something seems a bit strange here.

  14. #44
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    Kal

    I dont know about splashing hands ....just saw some videos ...and some of the ng ga form doing in the splashing hands way ....

    Here a tribute for ng ga GM Seming Ma from me

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhf_I-QN3qA

    Do you see splashing hands


    U know lima lama ,ed parker kenpo and .....Urs research is in a good way

    Steeve

  15. #45
    Dear Sifu Jim,
    Did you know and train with a gentleman named Ron Chapel.
    I understand he was also a very early student of GM Ark Wong.
    I've found this interesting post by him, where he states that Ark Wong was a master of Splashing Hands!
    This gets more and more mysterious by the day!

    http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...7&postcount=13

    I actually began studying under Grandmaster Ark Yuey Wong in the late fifties. I was introduced into a very closed culture by a schoolmate who happened to be his nephew, Douglas Wong now Grandmaster himself of White Lotus and Sil-Lum and a good friend. His other nephew is Curtis Wong founder and publisher of Inside Kung Fu magazine.

    The school at that time was located in the Los Angeles Chinatown at 302 Ord Street, around the corner from the Won Kok Chinese Restaurant. (All the seniors have eaten there at one time or another with Ed Parker Sr.) It was also up the street from Bruce Lee’s “secret” LA Chinatown Kwoon at 628 College Street on the other side of Broadway. It also at one time was on Daly Street, which is also basically “around the corner.”

    Although GM Wong was the acknowledged head of Five Animal Qung fu, he also was the only acknowledged master of Splashing Hands in North America. It is here where the legendary Haumea “Tiny” Lefiti landed with a letter from his original teacher when he was discharged from the Marine Corp. “Tiny” was older than Parker but they shared Polynesian Roots and a military kinship because he too had served in the coast guard. Parker however was lucky enough to be stationed in Hawaii which allowed him to continue training with Chow and receive his black belt in Kenpo, Jiu-jitsu, and karate-do while still in the military.

    The Chinese influences are great in many areas, from a number of sources. The earlier foray into Chinese Arts saw Ed Parker Sr. beginning to emulate in many ways his Samoan Senior at Ark Wong’s. Having a similar body build made Parker very comfortable with the explosive handwork of “Splashing Hands” he saw with “Tiny.” To put it mildly, “Tiny” was a monster who had himself, a great deal of influence on martial artists in Southern California. Consider him a bigger, stronger and yes, faster Ed Parker and you have “Tiny” at that stage of Parker’s development. Ultimately, “Tiny” left to join Ed Parker’s black belt Tino Tuiolosega in the formation of the original “Lima Lama” organization at Parker’s suggestion. This influenced others like the late Sal Esquivel to spend time at Ark Wong’s as well. Danny Inosanto also was no stranger to Ark Wong’s school before leaving to be with Parker, before going on the road once again with Bruce Lee and also studying Kali and Silat.

    Make no mistake. Ed Parker was a student of Ark Wong, and although he spent time with many Chinese Masters, Ark Wong was probably the biggest Chinese influence with Five Animal and Splashing Hands. Even more than his relationships with James (Wing) Woo, or Lau Bun who was his primary Hung Gar influence. Ark Wong contributed “sets” and critical information. Lau Bun taught the initial Hung Gar and Choi Li Fut forms like “Tiger and the Crane,” James Woo provided the majority of the historical information for Parker’s “Secrets of Chinese Karate,” and it was the source of discourse that caused them to separate with two of Parker’s first black belts leaving with Woo. But James Woo collaborated on and provided the Two-Man Set that came to be known as the “Book Set,” as well as other forms. James Woo also taught Taiji Quon in Parker’s school for a period of time.

    The “Star Block” was a variation on a Five Animal Blocking Routine, and was the beginning of all “sets.” The original “Finger Set” followed it almost immediately. Ark Wong was a major influence on Parker and is also the root of his understanding of structural integrity, internal energy, and nerve applications that I use today.

    In all honesty although I studied with Ark Wong for several years, it was not until I actually met the legendary Ed Parker did he begin to explain what I had learned in a manner that I could really understand. I came to him with a great deal of information, but not truly understanding the applications because it was out of context until the “Kahuna” began to enlighten me as a wide eyed seventeen year old.

    The Chinese martial arts community was a “closed shop,” with real information not generally taught to outsiders, and for the most part still is. They liked and embraced Ed Parker and even expressed their feelings of how much they liked him to his son after he passed. I was lucky to have a good friend named Douglas Wong.

    Parker never really left “Chinese Kenpo,” but he Americanized it for his own consumption and personal art, and than created a commercial version for the vast majority of his students from the seventies on. Unfortunately, the complexities of the Chinese Sciences are not easily taught, nor were they intended to be, in general, available to most. That hasn’t changed. The level of knowledge required to teach is extradordinary. Although most lay the label of commercialization of kenpo at the feet of Ed Parker, it was actually the Tracy’s who started first and at least initially arguably more successfully.

    If I were to do Ed Parker's personal tree, it would be Chow, Wong, Lefiti, with contributions by various others.

    Although Ark Wong, Haumea Lefiti, and Ed Parker Sr., are no longer with us, James Wing Woo is alive and well to my knowledge.

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