Should the rich pay more taxes?

[Merryprankster]

Agreed, except ONE part pays more in Taxes than the other even makes, so i think the other should just shut up, or share the burden!

I think this has to be weighed against the benefit they derive from public goods and services.

Presumably, a rich person or corporation derives a greater benefit. The question is - to what degree, and is that degree higher or lower than the tax burden they "enjoy" now?

[Yum Cha]

OK Merry,
You pointed out the wickedness of my ways. Speculators do serve a purpose, I just don't like them. Kinda like that sometimes.

Concerning your perspective on fairness. To follow it through, you would have to calculate if the bottom 1% take more out or give more back than they are taxed, in which case, you would probably have to raise their taxes, yet, could they pay?

What than? I suspect somebody would have to subsidise them.

Also, the common misconception that welfare goes to lazy people is brainwashing. In the US, the vast majority of welfare goes to children. Too lazy to work? No, we have laws against it. Should they starve for the sins of their parents?

Economic rationalism is applied to workers, in that if they are too expensive, they are outsourced to other cheaper economies, replaced by machines, or otherwise resourced, yet bloated executive salaries are supported because "that is what is needed to attract the talent". That is rubbish, and my example of the japanese is not to as much praise them, as to point out the differential.

Executive bonuses for executives that fail is a classic example.

On a side note -

Wages are taxed, but reinvestment, corporate capital, trust accounts, etc are not taxed to the same extent, partially because the capital is still "working". People call these tax dodges, and yes, sometimes they are, but nevertheless, they are still 'working', compounding their value.

AND - different tax rates, consider the marginal difference. When you calculate the amount of advantage a high salaried individual is deemed to gain from the economy agains the margainal difference, 5-10%? It doesn't seem so big.

[unkokusai]

Incidentally, I call bull**** on you telling me what my direction is. .

You can 'declare' yourself anything you want, but when your words on your thread indicate something, I gotta call it like I see it.

[The Willow Sword]

Unkokusai does what every good neo-con should do. If some alternative viewpoint comes out that counters his own ideological neo con babble, it is very convenient for them to label it a "political agenda" and close thier ears and shout out "nya nya i cant hear you i cant hear you". Its the Ultimate contradiction in terms when the Neo cons spout out " political agenda" when they themselves are the authors of the "political agenda".
Yeah those dirty Liberals are gonna take away your privilages,your guns, your tax breaks,your stingy corporate outsourcing, oh my gawd there gonna put a woman in charge,Obama will get elected ,saints preserve us the south is falling
They will all move to the center of the country and wall off ohio or some midwest state and create a country of their own

i can already hear the birds chirping and the Sun coming out


Peace,TWS

[WinterPalm]

Yes.


However, who usually decides to raise or lower taxes? Hmmm, the rich?

[Black Jack II]

No they should not.

Punishing somoneone for class envy and jealousy is thin in my book. Even worse when you try and punish someone who creates the very job you hold and helps to drive the economy.

The bullsh!t about wanting an even playing field is just a smokescreen for those who dislike others who are a big success. It's not your wealth to redistribute, you did not earn it, those that were hardworking enough or just darn lucky got there and they should have the right to enjoy it.

Not some fat a$$ welfare mom with 6 kids, with 3 different baby daddies, who does nothing but sit inside all day, smoke pot, bone other losers without protection and watch Maury on the new tv they somehow are able to get there hands on with other peoples cash.

[rogue]

Hell, a lot of American execs are as bad as any welfare mother. For example, you screw up and cost a company $2,000 you out on the street looking for a new job. Mr. Executive makes a blunder that cost over $2,000,000 and he's negotiating the terms of his leaving which usually includes continued medical benefits, large payout package and lovely parting gifts like a laptop and a leased car. All that for being as dumb as a rock. And no, I didn't pull this example out of thin air.

I think this has to be weighed against the benefit they derive from public goods and services.

Presumably, a rich person or corporation derives a greater benefit.

How does a rich person derive greater benefit from public goods and services? I do rub shoulders socially with some darn wealthy people and if anything they use less public goods and services. Heck these people find it a hardship fly only first class. Also see above rant about an execs unemployment package.

[Black Jack II]

Hell, a lot of American execs are as bad as any welfare mother

I disagree. I don't believe that description comes close to being compaired to the one I stated, in the context of "as bad." Nor was mine pulled out of thin air.

First off, he had a job, so ergo he was contributing and more than anything will get another job, which unlike the career welfare mom just wants to sit on her kester and collect checks and government perks like a free car and lowered rent. Also just because Mr. Executive negotiates his leaving package, which may include large payouts, is just indicative of the successfull position he has achieved in life. It's part and parcel of where he is at.

Most rich people did not get there by a accident nor did poor people get there by a accident. Economic status is often a good or bad life decisions. What this is is that certain people hate the concept of profit, in specific they hate those that have the ability to make what "they" term an excessive profit.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Most rich people did not get there by a accident nor did poor people get there by a accident. Economic status is often a good or bad life decisions. What this is is that certain people hate the concept of profit, in specific they hate those that have the ability to make what "they" term an excessive profit.

Reply]
I'd like to add that is that they hate because they don't have the ability to do it themselves...it's a Jealousy thing.

[rogue]

I disagree. I don't believe that description comes close to being compaired to the one I stated, in the context of "as bad." Nor was mine pulled out of thin air.

First off, he had a job, so ergo he was contributing and more than anything will get another job, which unlike the career welfare mom just wants to sit on her kester and collect checks and government perks like a free car and lowered rent. Also just because Mr. Executive negotiates his leaving package, which may include large payouts, is just indicative of the successfull position he has achieved in life. It's part and parcel of where he is at.

Most rich people did not get there by a accident nor did poor people get there by a accident. Economic status is often a good or bad life decisions. What this is is that certain people hate the concept of profit, in specific they hate those that have the ability to make what "they" term an excessive profit.

BJ, I know more than a few of these clowns that drag each other around from company to company. If anything these guys are great salesmen gifted with a large set of juevos who may have had one trick up their sleeve that got them noticed.
These clowns gaining these positions and the cash that comes with it has nothing to do with accomplishing anything but more to do with snowing some ignorant CEO into believing that they can turn around a company or department long enough to collect some big checks.
Like I said, I brush shoulders with these guys socially and I've worked for more than a few. One who I had worked for darn near choked on his shrimp at a company Christmas party because I knew how the lying skunk sunk his last company. He was gone in under a year, and his little hanger ons soon after.
The only difference between the welfare mother and these corporate parasites is where their check comes from.

[unkokusai]

Unkokusai does what every good neo-con should do.

Too funny. Do you even realize that in attempting to categorize me, you just walked into your own little box and locked the door?

[WinterPalm]

Either way it's a class war.

The rich want less taxes for themselves and their buddies.
The poor want more taxes on the rich and less on themselves and their families.

It is unfortunate that the rich are winning it.

However, I have no desire to be rich...to own all kinds of crap and have the luxuries that no human should have while others live in squalor...no thanks. My income combined with my girlfriend's is just over the poverty line...but I enjoy life without cars, fancy appliances, and all that other junk...hell, I don't even have cable!

I work in the ghetto. Sometimes I feel that I have way too much compared to these people...it doesn't make me want more, that's for sure.

People need to spend more time on the streets, day to day, see how people live, both rich and poor.

Re welfare moms: I agree. While we're at it, women that get raped should be charged with enticement for wearing nice clothes. The elderly should be reprimanded for being too frail to fight back. Defenseless countries should be thankful they get invaded!

More so than the rich paying more taxes, a cap on wages, way more control over sprialing private ownership, no longer dealing with corporations that have abused employees under them, and slowing production.
It's people before profits, right? Maybe not I guess...
People need to just chill out, don't buy so much, don't work so much, have some more leisure time, don't be so darn greedy! Who cares if the economy grows in a country like the US where a lot of people don't even have health care?

Most of us have to operate within a system that makes us feel it is either me or them, and it's going to be you no matter how ruthless I have to be. It's disgusting. People give away their humanity and decency to get a new car, to get a raise, to buy a bunch of stuff that isn't going to be there when you die...but the people, the family, the friends, hopefully they will be around and you haven't alienated all of them becoming a greedy little squirrel with your pathetic nuts all hidden away!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Either way it's a class war.

Reply]
Yup

The rich want less taxes for themselves and their buddies.

Reply]
That is because they are paying more in taxes each year than most people even make in that time....they are getting the short end of the stick , especially when you consider they are providing the engine that drives the over all economy, hires the employees, and pays them the salaries in which small portions of which go to taxes. In other words, if you make $50,000 a year, and pay $12,000 of that in taxes, your employer is probably paying 50,000 in cold cash to the government for his taxes (Higher bracket, makes more etc...)

I'm sure he's wondering whats so fair about him having to pay $50,000 in taxes, when you only have to pay $12,000.

Sure he wants to pay less for him and his buddies..imagine if YOU had to fork over FIFTY G'S every year!!


The poor want more taxes on the rich and less on themselves and their families.

Reply]

And that is exactly what they got...stick it to the rich so they don't have to pony up!

It is unfortunate that the rich are winning it.

Reply]
Winning it? How do you figure? when was the last time YOU had to dish out an average person's yearly salary to the tax man? sound more like the rich man is getting heavily shafted to me!!

[Black Jack II]

The only difference between the welfare mother and these corporate parasites is where their check comes from

.

True, those guys may be parasites, though I would more than not call them conmen, but your right, the big difference is I am not paying there severance. It's not even close to the only difference I see, but I will concide that.

It is unfortunate that the rich are winning it.

However, I have no desire to be rich...to own all kinds of crap and have the luxuries that no human should have while others live in squalor

Good for you. A lot of people don't want to live like that.

Re welfare moms: I agree. While we're at it, women that get raped should be charged with enticement for wearing nice clothes. The elderly should be reprimanded for being too frail to fight back. Defenseless countries should be thankful they get invaded!

That is a genuine statement of grade A horsesh!t. Talk about changing around what someone said.

People need to spend more time on the streets, day to day, see how people live, both rich and poor.

No they don't.

a cap on wages

Canadian right....yep...could of guessed it. Which means its a lot of uneducated garbage about the US to follow.

People need to just chill out, don't buy so much, don't work so much, have some more leisure time, don't be so darn greedy! Who cares if the economy grows in a country like the US where a lot of people don't even have health care?

And here comes the cowpie, served up warm and toasty. Dude, everyone in America has access to healthcare, you will not be turned away, but the best part is since most of the healthcare system is private based, we have the very best in the world, its where people come to get the real deal.

Get a better job so you can buy a couple of books and get a more solid understanding of the geopolitical formation you are trying to dis. Not just the liberal internt propaganda.

People give away their humanity and decency to get a new car

Bawhaha....what the hell is in the water up there.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am cool with everyone paying a consistent across the board average, be it 25% 35% or 50%, whatever.

Its only fair.