Suggestions/help...

[Redrooster]

Im wondering if anyone knows of any video of wing chun in action in an actual encounter, either a real fight situation or a full contact tournament type setting?

Im 43 yo and looking to start training again , I did tae kwon do in high school, although in retrospect I believe the correct pronunciation should be "take-ones-dough" - the korean art of emptying pockets.

Ive studied styles as much as possible and really believe wing chun to be my best fit. I want something that I can stay with until Im old and gray. While there is much to be said about western boxing and its bareknuckle techniques as well as Muay thai, I believe for my situation WC is easily the best fit.

In order for me to put forth as much effort as required to master the art/sceince
of WC I would like to see it in action for real. I have bareknuckle video of both Muay thai fighters and Irish gypsy western boxing style but can find no video of WC. Can anyone help?

Thanks guys

Derrick

[Lugoman]

I hear tale that this is fake, I don't know. Maybe someone else knows the validity of this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Glv1xm8Vk8g

[Redrooster]

I should have been more specific....

Im looking for a dvd with wing chun fighting.

There seem to be many clips on you tube though. Ill have to wade through them on my dial up sigh

Derrick

[anerlich]

Youtube or www.alanorr.com would be your best bets.

You may be disappointed if you expect Wing Chun as used in real fights to look like it does in the forms or in books.

[Redrooster]

Yes, ive spent a couple of hours watching clips. It seems as though when the fists start flying most quality technique gets thrown out the window.

I really like the footwork, jamming the kickers before they get off. I like one clip of full contact sparring, the young people were throwing elbows and going to finish on the ground on the opponenets chest, whether this is proper WC I dont know. there was certainly no sticky hands or anything concerning "feel".

As for the rest Im starting to question this form for the following reasons.

1.I realy cant see sticky hands in a combat situation. I know Im not giving up my arms when Im punching. A good fighter isnt going to allow for that.

2.You just cannot deflect and trap a punch thrown with body weight behind it. A good hooker is going to break your ribs if you try to deflect a whirling body weight shot. You also cant deflect a good jab, at least not trap it and counter.

3. The range at which this is designed for is a problem for me. Again a good boxer or Muay Thai practitioner isnt going to stay there and if a boxer does a hook to the head is on the way as the WC man has his hands in front of him.

Im the first to admit I may be wrong, Im just going on what Ive seen in the vids.
I also must admit that most of these were matches where the fighters were squared off, such is not the case in real life assaults. I can see the value of sticky hands in self defense situations.

Unfortunately the only school I have access to is a Moy Fat school, from what I understand i will spend a couple of years to work up to sparring and that aint happening to learn "self defense".

If Im all wrong here let me know like I said Im basing this on what Ive seen in the vids on this site.

Derrick

[Matrix]

Derrick,

The reason I think you are uncomfortable with the range is due to your TKD experience. You tend to feel safer outside, and come in for kick or two and move back out. I was also a TKD practioner for about 6 years so I think I know where you're coming from. If you don't think that is dangerous then you're very mistaken.

Keep in mind that chi sao ( sticky hands a s you refer to it) is just a sensitivity drill. It is not a fighting method.

You talk alot about deflecting and trapping. That sounds more like JKD to me than Wing Chun. Having said that, if you feel that MT or boxing are superior then if I were you, I would just train in those arts instead. Your post sounds like you're looking for someone to convince you that WC has merit. In this forum I have tended to become more cynical over time and with that I think you just may be trolling. Of course I could be way off base. If you are serious, then I would 2nd anerlich's suggestion that you look at Alan Orr's site.

[Redrooster]

Well your right in some respects. I am trying to get a handle on just what WC is about in terms of real life situations and i am trying to get some positive feedback and frankly some sort of proof as far as the effectiveness of technique over power.

As of yet Im not seeing anything that shows what WC is touted for, technique over size and power. Yin over yang. Tao says yin triumphs over yang in the end and i believe that, yet in all the videos Ive seen concernng WC the practitioners are using strength/power techniques such as elbows and body weight punches as opposed to the trapping and quick strikes WC texts speak of.

Is the WC of texts a myth?

As for your comment about tkd and range. I think my copmments about range are based more on watching hours and hours of bareknuckle boxing and Muay thai matches. The middle range is a dangerous place to be if you not throwing hooks elbows or knees.

Your right I could train in boxing and gear that towards bare hand techniques, or Muay Thai but the point of looking into WC is that it is touted as being more technique and less power, something a person can do into their 60's or more. Boxing and MT do NOT go in this catagory and WC THEORY makes so much sense.

So again is the idea that a smaller person or one using WC technique can beat a larger stronger person a complete myth? Wheres the proof? I want to believe!

Derrick

[sihing]

It's not for us, or anybody to prove anything to you about Wing Chun. It is about you experiencing it for yourself. Video's and books can only give you a very general outlook on what is happening, you have to experience it for yourself. The problem is not all Wing Chun is the same or equal. It took me 18 yrs to realize the truth of that last sentence.

Good luck on your journey, where ever it leads you Derrick

James

[Damian Yeung]

If your interested in wing chun, you should just go to a school and have a chat with the sifu there. Most would be more than happy to show you what they are able to do.

[Tom Kagan]

I hear tale that this is fake, I don't know. Maybe someone else knows the validity of this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Glv1xm8Vk8g

There's probably a dozen things which, for anyone which knows what they are looking at, prove it's staged. Of course, punches which don't connect and pulled stomps should be obvious to everyone.

[OdderMensch]

and the non wing chun fighter missed a perfect opportunity to attack when the WC gun paused to take off his outer shirt

I agree with the general theme of this thread. I'm sorry but there is not a lot of video taped,, burned to dvd proof that Wing Chun "Works" Most of the fights I have heard tales of did not take place in setting likely to be caught on camera.

as for your specific concerns....

1.I realy cant see sticky hands in a combat situation. I know Im not giving up my arms when Im punching. A good fighter isnt going to allow for that.

you should never 'see' sticking hands working. As has been stated "sticking hands" is not a technique it's a quality of movement. the drill 'chi sao' is just a drill to help you refine this quality.

2.You just cannot deflect and trap a punch thrown with body weight behind it. A good hooker is going to break your ribs if you try to deflect a whirling body weight shot. You also cant deflect a good jab, at least not trap it and counter.

hooks, jabs, and straight punches are three different animals. Each require slightly different response from the WC fighter. First you are absolutely right, you will likely never 'trap' a jab. a jabbing motion (from what little I know of boxing) is a probing shot, it comes in a certain distance then moves back.a jab should be met, then followed back to the source (ironically using one of the principles of sticking hands "meet what comes, follow what leaves")

a straight punch, thrown with body weight, can be deflected. I've done it. Ive done it in drills I've done it sparring, I've done it in "real life" (I put quotes around because it was not a sanctioned event, not video taped, just some dude punching at me at work)

AS for the whirling hook shots they can be stopped, you just need the proper footwork and awareness to reposition your body.

3. The range at which this is designed for is a problem for me. Again a good boxer or Muay Thai practitioner isnt going to stay there and if a boxer does a hook to the head is on the way as the WC man has his hands in front of him.

IMHO in a sportive type scenario, a very good boxer/mauy thai fighter has an advantage over a decent WC fighter. WC trains to attack the center, to rush forward, to dominate the range. Boxers play the range game better than most arts. If you allow a good boxer to play with you he is going to hit you, hard. One of the hardest things to deaal with at my school is the Mantis Practitioners. It's very hard to keep the range where I like it (ie hitting them in the face range) but its hardly impossible.

No system when used properly looks like its forms or its training drills in a real life situation. things happen to fast. What is important is that the qualities WC provides give substantial advantages that you can leverage to defeat any other opponent, trained or not, larger or not. However history is rife with people who had all the advantages, and still lost.

[Matrix]

As for your comment about tkd and range. I think my copmments about range are based more on watching hours and hours of bareknuckle boxing and Muay thai matches. The middle range is a dangerous place to be if you not throwing hooks elbows or knees.

Well, I made the comment based on the information provided at the time. You wouldn't be a lawyer by any chance, would you? Besides, I think your personal experience will outweigh what you've watched on videos. Otherwise I would be Tiger Woods.

Your right I could train in boxing and gear that towards bare hand techniques, or Muay Thai but the point of looking into WC is that it is touted as being more technique and less power, something a person can do into their 60's or more. Boxing and MT do NOT go in this catagory and WC THEORY makes so much sense.

Well, it is only THEORY. You need to try it out for yourself. I doubt I could say anything on this forum that will help you out.

So again is the idea that a smaller person or one using WC technique can beat a larger stronger person a complete myth? Wheres the proof? I want to believe!.

...and I want to believe that you are sincere, but for some reason I don't. Based on your comments I don't envision you standing there doing SLT for hours on end.

Besides, why do you want to believe? You seem very predisposed to MMA And MT. I suggest that you go with that. Or find yourself a nice BJJ school, you can do that into your 60's or later as well. Wing Chun, IMO, is for people who have a different mindset than I am getting from you. Sorry if I'm being judgemental, but that's what I'm getting at this point.

[anerlich]

So again is the idea that a smaller person or one using WC technique can beat a larger stronger person a complete myth? Wheres the proof? I want to believe!.

The idea that a skilled smaller person can generally beat a larger stronger person of similar skill level in an equivalent art IS a complete myth.

A person with skill in an effective art can often beat an unskilled person with greater strength or size. There are limits of course - I can't see a WC master, BJJ black belt or anyone else successfully taking on an angry bull elephant. And of course nothing can ever be guaranteed.

I have to agree with the other posters - I'm not paid to convince you of anything and don't particularly care whether you take WC or not. It sounds to me like you have too many doubts about the art and would be better off with something else - that as, if you're *really* interested in training rather than watching DVD's and wasting other people's time on internet forums..

If you're concerned about fight effectiveness in all areas, consider BJJ. If you can't find clips or DVD's of that being used effectively, there's something wrong with you.

[Matrix]

A person with skill in an effective art can often beat an unskilled person with greater strength or size. There are limits of course - I can't see a WC master, BJJ black belt or anyone else successfully taking on an angry bull elephant. And of course nothing can ever be guaranteed.

Andrew,
As usual you are right on the mark. There are several myths surrounding Wing Chun from snakes and cranes, to shaolin nuns and let's not forget Bruce. I know that there are many people who are interested in these sorts of things, but I'm not one of them. The past is past and I prefer to deal with the here and now.

There is no magic, no secret techniques, just an interesting progression of developing skills. It's biomechanics and body structure. Any art can use those mechanics and several do just as effectively- BJJ comes immediately to mind. For me, Wing Chun offers a good system of training, and the use of the whole body in a structured way. It's something that I love to train and practice, and that's what works for me.

As always, objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear.

Peace,
Bill

[Finny]

Derrick,

I don't have any video footage that I am able to show you, but my WSL WC Sifu is probably 5'2" and 150 lbs - he's a tiny little chinese guy from Hong Kong in his 40s.

I'm 6'4" and 225lbs. I have trained MAs since I was a kid, I work out daily and am in good shape. My Sifu kicks my ass. Without fail. I have had moments where I thought I was in a position to exploit my size advantage, moved in to do so, and been summarily messed right up - Sifu smiling his ass off the whole time. Now these weren't full on fights, this was training. So maybe if I charged him and did my best to ground-and-pound him I might have a chance of beating him.

But if I look at his senior student, who is younger, bigger and stronger than Sifu (but still smaller than me) - it wouldn't matter what I did - he would beat me in a fight. He's just that skilled.

Like the others have said, we're not here to convince you. Go find someone who can SHOW you what Wing Chun is all about.

Because if you meet someone skilled enough, you won't have any doubts left.