The Buck Sing Fighting Arts of Grandmaster Tarm Sarm

[nospam]

Yes, that's Ping Chuan or as we call it Sap Ji Chuan. Not sure why there is a change in names for some people. Perhaps someone has a good story to relate.

Thanks for the vid post - always enjoy watching Fut Gar Chuan!

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[CLFNole]

Aren't the 3 buk sing hand forms:

1) Sup Gee Kuen
2) Kow Dah Kuen
3) Ping Kuen

I believe the 4th set is sheung garp dan tow kwun (single & double end staff).

This is what I was told and have also read from some buk sing sites but I think things could vary from school to school so not sure. I have seen some list Che Kuen and Lien Wan Kuen as a set as well.

[hskwarrior]

this the fut san hung sing che kuen

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bJ4d7p5JTY0

[hskwarrior]

here's buk sing clf's Carey Wong doing a jow ga set......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp8gNLQxY9Q

[Steeeve]

Nospam

Ping kuen and sup ji kuen are two different forms Like CLFNole said

Here the beginning look like ping kuen (the Siu ping kuen Like I saw perform by Sifu Shane Lacey ) but after the form is different maybe sup ji kuen .....Look like a compilation of different forms for demo ....Who know

Steeve

Ps Frank very good jow ga (Fu pow ) form Thank you

[Vilmore]

so does anyone have the answer to my question?
What's with the "siu" in Siu Ping Keun, Siu Subje keun, Siu Moi Far keun?
Siu Ping Keun and Ping keun seem to be the same, while Moi Far Keun and Siu Moi Far keun are not.

[Satori Science]

The three traditional patterns are sup tse kuen (big frame about 200 movements and small frame about 125) kow da kuen, and ping kuen, all three are very classical, are supposed to be preformed on a deep horse but use a pattent bak hsing fighting stance called the triangle horse which is a taller modified bow stance.

Tam Fei Pang, only taught (or at least emphsised) di & sui sup tse kuen, and then his own modified fighting Jeen Kuen patterns. So my sigung never taught ping kuen of kow da.

Lung Jee on the other hand also taught my Sifu Ping Kuen and a foundation form called Che kuen but it is a completelty different pattern then the one Sifu frank posted. Ours is much less advanced pattern in terms of movemnts. Its actually like a post standing routine ware you hold each strike for about a minute in deep stance.

I'm not sure what form that was Steeeve posted, it was a classical style pattern, one of the three. But not in any order that I ever learned. It was awsome though, very unique the combinations of swinging punches. For the most part though, my Sifu has always told me that the only form that matters is the big frame sup tse. There wasn't a single movement in this vid that isn't in di sup tse. There are of course endless differnt ways to play them, coordinate them and syncronize them, but really if you've learned the basic movemetn in a sequence already you don't "need" the other forms. Like I said i really liked the way he played this form( i'de probably learn it if i had a chance), but in our school we only teach 4 southern forms, foundationf form, sup tse jeen kuen, lien whan jeen kuen and Sup Tse. When I teach I include one or two more foundation forms, but thats it for patterns. After that its fighting, performance, understanding and gung with our CLF.

[CLFNole]

Vilmore:

Siu just means small as in a smaller version. Siu Ping Kuen - Small Level Fist, etc...

Also:

Che Kuen is another name we use for Ng Lun Choy. A primary set that focuses on repetition of stances and basic hand patterns.

[nospam]

As I said, some ping chuan are apparently others' sap ji chuan so I have seen of late. Lineages within Bak Sing teach different patterns (and different movements within same 'named' patterns). And as I have said, I do not know why there was a name change in at least one of the patterns as pointed out earlier. Although watching the various patterns performed...change is quite common and is nothing new.

My lineage teaches:

sui yat mun chuan
yat mun chuan
gai bun chuan
sap ji chaun
sap ji gin chuan
lin won jin chuan

..of course for teaching purposes there are many many variations for most of the patterns especially when training the 5 animals.

Regardless, they are just patterns and thus one of many teaching tools.

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[CLFNole]

Do you translate yat mun kuen as one door fist? Do you pronounce the mun like moon? Or is it Yahp Mun Kuen - Inner Door/Chamber Fist?

Gay boon kuen translates to basic/fundamental fist.

Were these sets introduced by your sifu or sigung? My sifu created some basic starter sets as well to make learning a bit easier.

[Vilmore]

thx clfnole

and gai bun keun means basics... makes sence now

[Satori Science]

My Sifu set up our gai boon kuen, and yat mun kuen was my Sigung's pattern. My Sihing, Sifu Curtis Taylor also taught me a longer gai boon kuen that has more tiger claw and sweeps.

[nospam]

yut mun ch'uan - mun pronounced moon - is first door form and was created by my sigung after he immigrated to Canada to more easily introduce power to entry level practitioners. This pattern is similar to traditional karate kata although not performed slow. It serves the beginner many purposes and is short in length.

gai bun ch'uan - martial source - has its origin from Lung Gee. I have no idea if our pattern resembles the original Heep Wui Gai Bun Ch'uan as taught at the HK Chinese Martial Arts Union in the mid-40s. My guess is there is similarity; regardless, this form sets the foundation or the flavour of our bak sing. I have seen a gai bun ch'uan performed and it did not look anything remotely familiar to bak sing's and seemed very 'basic'. Gai bun ch'uan is my favourite form. It is very dramatic when performed well.

again, goes to show the differences at play in our little CLF world

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[hskwarrior]

this is fut san ping kuen.....

how much different is it from a buk sing ping kuen....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7Z1NXmn-RAw

[nospam]

The intro seem to be pretty much the same then all hell breaks lose between brances and lineages. There are pieces and 'phrases' that are similar but it is most definitely different.

At 1:26 into the video is ping or sap ji (what is performed I was taught as Sap ji ch'uan). And again by another sifu at 5:25 and it is different (and also in the way it is performed) than the first sifu's from the 1:26 mark. Notice the opening line and some are similar - this seems to be the constant. My lineage has a little of the first and a little of second etc. I;ve seen some others and they all were different.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=Pak+Sing+Koon

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