hobbyists

[bawang]

I'm not sure how being realistic is desecrating a culture because, technically I don't think anyone can claim anything other than being a Chinese Martial Arts hobbyist unless they're wearing full-armor, riding a horse, and shooting arrows at the charging horde of similarly armed adversaries.
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Being a hobbyist doesn't mean that you don't take your chosen martial art seriously. You can be serious in your training, pay attention to all the details, develop jing, and develop the skills that would be necessary to defend yourself--- being realistic just means that you realize that there's not a lot of need to fist-fight. A better goal is seeing and realizing that TCMA is a key to give you something incredibly valuable:

https://www.facebook.com/britishshao...8/?pnref=story

*most of the tough competitive Judoka that I knew that lived to the above guy's age all had some type of mobility issue - canes, braces, hunched limped walking, etc.

They sure as heck weren't moving like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ_DSsyEiPY

chill jabroni i am a hobbitist myself for reals.

kung fu does have more hobbyist members that dont take it seriously. its a fact of life. firstly kung fu has been marketed for a long time as weird whacky fun. it thus attracts that type of people who want that. secondly kung fu is also viewed as feminine deviant anti masculinity. thus attracts people who want that.

chinese masculine theme in kung fu (combat + fitness + confucius ) doesnot fit racial narrative and expectation from society. black brothers are more successful in kung fu because they can overcome the mental barriers more easily.

when you see students doing form stiffly awkwardly, and giggling at teacher explaining concepts, that is the mental barrier at work.

[MarathonTmatt]

when you see students doing form stiffly awkwardly, and giggling at teacher explaining concepts, that is the mental barrier at work.

Thank you for saying that. After/ during training with my first teacher, Dr. Aihan from Changsha (tai chi style) the long fist school I later trained in had this element. In my first teacher's school (Aihan Kuhn) there was absolutely no room for such nonsense, and someone with that attitude would not have been able to of put up with the training. however, the long fist school was tailored to westerners- to be honest i was put off by the attitudes of some of the other students who, as u describe were stiff, awkward and giggly. some of the students there longer than me didn't even seem to be able to grasp some fundamentals. however i liked the teachers (as well as others) and the training, and am glad i stuck with it, i grew my skills and have nothing but gratitude for my teachers/ training at the school.

idk if i classify as a hobbyist or not to be honest. either way i am not bothered by it. i grew up and live in the sticks. im a former marathon runner and athletic and was never a couch potato. my dad always put me to work. out of my other brothers, it seems i was always the one who was around/ available for work the most. i also worked at the horse farm the other end of the block. i would rather spend a day out in the woods than go shopping or be seen in some metropolis. when i have been challenged to a fight a couple times within the last few years i have come out on top.... but this list includes a drunken instigator and one other challenge, the kid was quick, got me on the defensive at first but then i became the aggressor and wore him down quick. i have experience sparring in class but have never done a full contact competition match (edit: against an actively training skilled fighter). i would also have to agree with some of mightyb's points.

[Jimbo]

In the early 2000's I decided I wanted to teach, and held my own CLF classes for 4 years. During that time I came to realize that, while I understand my art and was able to effectively transmit it to my students, I wasn't comfortable as a MA teacher. I was not comfortable with the self-promotion and business aspects of it; in fact, I sucked at it. I'm fine doing other things for business, but for most of my life MA was a BIG part of it; an obsession, actually. When it became a business for me, I wasn't enjoying it anymore. Plus, I already have a career outside of MA. It was a second job, not to mention my other responsibilities and goals. It left me little room for a life.

If you teach...not just amuse people by teaching some forms, but seriously impart your art in a responsible way...it is work. It's a job. If I choose to do something, I put my heart into it, and if I don't feel I can give it my all, or if I don't feel a perfect fit for it, I let it go. I approved my students who still wanted to train to other teachers.

I respect all the truly serious and ethical MA teachers out there who do teach professionally or privately, for without them, I wouldn't have learned my MAs. But being a professional MAist just wasn't for me. I like the freedom of being a perpetual practitioner/student too much. So I guess that makes me a hobbyist, and I'm fine with that. I sacrificed and bled a lot for this hobby, and after around 40 years of being into this stuff, I couldn't care less what labels someone else might attach to it.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Aside from the definition, my idea of a hobbyist is one who does not take the traditions seriously. They are those who do not practice outside the training hall,. They forget what they have been taught. They show up when they feel like it and expect to be catered to when they do show up. They enjoy the social milieu. And they are conspicuously absent when it is time for testing or demonstrations: they are more likely to say that they have to leave town or address a family emergency.

The opposite of that is the practitioner. And I think most of us have been that.


mickey

[Jimbo]

mickey,

That description of a hobbyist is better called a dabbler, or a dilettante. Of course, there's a lot of those. Any teacher or lifelong practitioner has seen hundreds of them. The worst type are the ones who claim they'll be the best student, better than all the ones already training, before their own first practice session. Without exception, this type always makes the worst, laziest students who (thankfully) never stick around long.

I would not consider this type a hobbyist. For something to be your hobby, you should have at least a semblance of interest in it.

[mickey]

Greetings Jimbo,

Dabbler definitely is the better word.

Thank you,

mickey

[Kellen Bassette]

chinese masculine theme in kung fu (combat + fitness + confucius ) doesnot fit racial narrative and expectation from society. black brothers are more successful in kung fu because they can overcome the mental barriers more easily.

when you see students doing form stiffly awkwardly, and giggling at teacher explaining concepts, that is the mental barrier at work.

Strangely, I and others I know have also found that to be true. A lot of the better kung fu men seem to be black guys...

[Jimbo]

Strangely, I and others I know have also found that to be true. A lot of the better kung fu men seem to be black guys...

Not really so strange. That's true not only in Kung Fu, but also in Kenpo/Karate/TKD, boxing, MT, MMA, football, etc., etc. Although I get the impression that with the younger generation of African-Americans, interest in Kung Fu is not at the level it was back in the 1970s and 80s. but maybe it's different in other areas.

[SteveLau]

A good topic indeed.

The definition of the word, hobby, in the first post fits my bill. It is a problem of proper use of word. And IMHO, the problem is caused by the definition of fun. People just do not have consensus of what is fun. Back to the word hobby, I have been training martial art for over 40 years, and have never treated training it as one.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't do MA as a job or to fight anymore.
Been there done that.
Now It do it for the pleasure and for the development of it.
I think we go through phases in our MA lifetime and that is the phase I am at right now.
I don't think of it is a hobby simply because I view a hobby as something non-physical and MA is most certainly physical.
This October it will be the 37th anniversary of me starting MA.

[David Jamieson]

I would add that if you integrate your practice into your lifestyle, whatever it may be, then it's not a hobby. it's part of your routine.
For instance, is eating breakfast a hobby? Doing laundry? Keeping good hygiene? Staying fit and healthy?

So, that kind of puts the kibosh on the black or white idea of what martial arts practice is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I would add that if you integrate your practice into your lifestyle, whatever it may be, then it's not a hobby. it's part of your routine.
For instance, is eating breakfast a hobby? Doing laundry? Keeping good hygiene? Staying fit and healthy?

So, that kind of puts the kibosh on the black or white idea of what martial arts practice is.

Very good point.

[PalmStriker]

Don't forget to include the collector's syndrome in the hobby aspect of martial arts mania. People get into all sorts of things for various reasons, sometimes because they like to acquire paraphernalia that endears them to their pursuit with the identification of, and being identified by others as being part of that "thing". Personally, I never have been a collector of anything but know people who collect material things as if possessed to do so. Not passing judgement, but at the same time feeling no urge to do this myself, I would say this is definitely the most noticeable "hobbyextension". One can say "Oh, it's an investment" but that is not what drives this psychological behavioral pattern.

[MightyB]

black brothers are more successful in kung fu because they can overcome the mental barriers more easily.