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Thread: CMA and groundfighting.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Small joint manipulation...sheesh.

    We aren't talking about techniques or joint locks. If you think ground fighting is only about the lock, then you know nothing about ground fighting at all.

    Positional dominance and transitions are the main components of fighting on the ground. Without position, you cannot lock someone or hold them down.

    CMA DOES NOT HAVE a method for training positional dominance or transitions from less dominant to more dominant positions, and without position, you cannot get a submission.

    Disagree? Show me a pure CMA technique to pass the guard.
    Look, MK, I agree with you on positional dominance, guard, and transition. But you have to often sacrifice protection from small joint manipulation in order to get that kind of position or leverage. A good BJJ guy can trap my hands and render them immobile. But sometimes, even against the black belts I rolled with for like 5 seconds before they pinned me or submitted me (hahaha, but true), I knew I could grab that finger on my lapel instead of grabbing the wrist, and wrenched that sucker till it broke. It would keep him from grabbing me with that hand, or punching me with it (if BJJ had strikes). All I'm saying is that a good chin-na guy could do what I can do infinitely better.

    BTW, there was a dude there with one arm that was severed at the elbow, and he was awesome, because he had mastered using leverage. But if I broke his one good hand, he'd be ****ed.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    It's pretty obvious you have no practical experience on the ground.

    And shoes make it EASIER to lock the ankle or heel hook someone.
    How so ?? I was talking about the toe chin na.

  3. #18
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    Pure CMA technique for passing the guard ?? What the hell does that mean??? I can use plenty of "pure CMA techinques to pass the guard "....
    Show me.

    In fact, how about a clip of you demonstrating?

  4. #19
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    All I'm saying is that a good chin-na guy could do what I can do infinitely better..
    And all the Chin Na in the world is useless without a system for training positional dominance, which CMA does not have because it was never the focus of Chinese systems in the first place.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Show me.

    In fact, how about a clip of you demonstrating?
    Which type of guard?? Half , full , butterfly.........?????? F#CK IT I WILL POST THEM ALL! I will get a partner, film it, and then post it . May take a day or two.I have been having trouble with uploading and down loading on my computer.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Wookie View Post
    BTW, there was a dude there with one arm that was severed at the elbow, and he was awesome, because he had mastered using leverage. But if I broke his one good hand, he'd be ****ed.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWhByQuLSPI

  7. #22

    Still Lmao @ You!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    And all the Chin Na in the world is useless without a system for training positional dominance, which CMA does not have because it was never the focus of Chinese systems in the first place.
    Guess you must still be a beginner or just a keyboard martial artist.!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    Which type of guard?? Half , full , butterfly.........?????? F#CK IT I WILL POST THEM ALL! I will get a partner, film it, and then post it . May take a day or two.I have been having trouble with uploading and down loading on my computer.
    OK, and please explain which form you trained these positions in, and demonstrate the form. Also, I'm sure you have the Chinese expressions for "full guard," "butterfly guard," and "half-guard" at your disposal, since you will be showing pure CMA techniques designed to escape these positions.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    Guess you must still be a beginner or just a keyboard martial artist.!
    ANYTIME you want to find out, I will be a gracious host.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    ANYTIME you want to find out, I will be a gracious host.
    LMAO @ YOU ,STILL!!!

  11. #26
    well, this is the funniest thread ive read through in a while. keep going, very interested to see those clips... lol

  12. #27
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    I do not believe that this is correct. It just does not fall into accordance with Chinese philosophies.

    If kung fu is well rounded and is based on Taoist yinyang principle then there would be many combinations. yang yang or both standing( greater yang ), yin yang one grounded and one standing ( lesser yin), yang yin one standing and one grounded (lesser yang ), or yin yin both grounded (greater yin).

    This is the greater and lesser aspects of yinyang principle.

    The combinations of yin yang or yang yin would be determined by which of the fighters was the weaker or stronger one on the ground or standing up.
    I believe Masterkiller is right on the money. It's "culturally" not preferrable (ungentleman like behavior) to wrestle a down opponent. There is no binding "philosophies" to say that TCMA should not or thou shalt not ground fight using TCMA. However, there isn't yet a TCMA style that have developed a proficient ground fighting (positional dominance) methodology. Most styles have something as Masterkiller have said pop up from the ground, ground kicks, or ground & pound. There are some rudimentary side control/knee on belly esque and primitive mount stuff but not enough to rival BJJ ground grappling specialist IMHO.

    I also believe that it is a gross misuse of the Yinyang principle here. Yinyang and Wuxing theories, or worldview of Yijing (classic of change) for that matter, can definitely be applied in groundfighting. But that's for people who are interested in more advanced academic pursuit once they have a solid working knowledge of ground fight (positional dominance with submission skill). It is not as superficial as outlined I would caution. It doesn't really help to mystify both fighting and philosophical work even if it is possible to consolidated as one IMHO.

    Just a thought

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  13. #28
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    The principles of stand up fighting with taijiquan can easily be applied to ground fighting, epecially when you are on the bottom, whether on your back or not.

    In taijiquan, the maximum number of things you do is absorption, redirection and attack. In many styles, like krav maga, western boxing, etc. you are taught to sidestep the attack and then, attack. Well, when you're on your back, you can't sidestep, but you can redirect an attack and then, attack, wether your attacker is on the ground with you or still upright when you're on the ground.

  14. #29

    I will use ...

    Ba Gua Zhang alone to prove that CMA has groundwork. I will use the philosophical , psychological and the physiological aspects of Taoism to prove what should already be known to the practitioners and masters of this art.

    .....By the way, there is nothing mystical about it.

    I could also use ground dragon , monkey, and many other styles.

    Yin /yang principle can be used to describe all the dual aspects of our existence.

    Standup fighting / groundfighting. Real basic ,not too hard to figure out, and is exactly how it is used.

    I am truelly amazed about the fact that this aspect of the art is soooooo lost or unheard of by all of you.

    Guess your schools do not teach the 3 "p's" of the arts. The philosophy of Taoism alone rules the Internal arts.

    This is tooo funny.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    I always thought that guy was amazing, seriously. Didn't know he was from Athens, though. I went to college at UGA in Athens.

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