CMA and groundfighting.

[tattooedmonk]

This guys living in delusion. He reminds me of Dr. Painter Ph.d.

Please go to a wrestling/bjj/judo practice and challange one of them.

whatever

I have and do .

[tattooedmonk]

MK

this guy is laughing at you

YES !!!LMAO AT YOU TOO!!!

[tattooedmonk]

*curls into fetal position and sucks thumb *

You should!!!!

[bodhitree]

YES !!!LMAO AT YOU TOO!!!

keep laughing. When you go to wrestle someone with skills and they choke you out, keep laughing. Apply your bagua trigram to that.

[RonH]

Saying you can take stand-up principles and apply them on the ground (which is wrong, anyway) is not the same as having a ground fighting system.

Let's work with an example. Say you are standing up and someone in front of you that is within breath smelling distance throws an elbow at you. You can raise your elbow, letting the force of their elbow strike be absorbed partially into your body and you redirect the path the elbow is taking, so it doesn't hit you.

Now, transfer that to a ground fight. Say someone is on top of you and your are on you back. They throw an elbow to your face. You can raise your arm, letting it absorb some of the force of the strike and redirect it away from your face.

The same is true when they've got you in a headlock and you're on your back with them on top of you. They're squeezing your neck. With that tension, your first impulse may be to tense your muscles out of fear that you'll soon loose air and if they keep holding, you'll die. First, you remain calm, so you don't tense up. You relax the muscles of your neck and you turn your head, while you push their arm away from your shoulder, slipping your head out.

Now, check out the link to the image below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...ame_armbar.jpg

I don't know if that's the proper name for the lock, but that doesn't matter. Let's say that you are in the position of the black guy in the photo, having a joint lock done by the asian guy. How does he get out of it? SImple, just like the previous example. First off, you need to relax the shoulder. Being tense, like you'd get from things, like some would do with western boxing, makes joint locks like this more effective. Keeping the shoulder joint muscles loose and not resisting the pull is what needs to be done. Yes, by the time you get out, the muscles can be stretched further than normal, if you haven't taken the steps already to keep yourself from having your arm pulled that far, even when they've already got their legs across your upper body and they've started to pull on your arm.

Now, your shoulder joint is being stretched and the asian guy has one leg across your throat. What do you do now? As you relax your arm, you turn your head towards the hips of the asian guy and push his leg up, so it slides across your chin. If you can bend your head back, so that his leg slids across not only your chin, but across the front of your adam's apple, that's better.

At this point, you are now in-between his legs and you can twist your shoulder, and roll on your left side. Here, you can push off the mat with your feet and with the hand not being held by the asian guy and get on top of him.

In a street fight, I'd recommend a headbutt to the nuts at this point, but in a sports match, you could get on top instead.

How often do you do it? How much of your class time is spent exploring Tai Chi principles against wrestlers...against submission experts?

I stopped going to the class some time ago, but it wasn't unheard of to train in grappling situations with people that knew what they were doing. There was this one guy that was a foot taller than me and he knew submission holds. Strong as a bull, too. He was tough to eventually beat because while he wasn't fast with moving his whole body, he could tighten his grip with his hands, arms and legs faster than I could slip out. He liked f@rting on people he put in holds, too,...the wanker. It took a while to get faster than him.

How often do you even fight full-contact stand-up in your Tai Chi class?

How are you defining full contact?

[MasterKiller]

Traditional Chinese ground fighting is based on PURPOSEFUL FALLING, FOOT WORK and when foot work is not an option a ROOTED BASE. I do not intend to elaborate too much here as certain methodologies were not intended for indiscriminate publication.
Not because it is some deep dark secret of Ninja lords (LOL) The reason is to maintain the integrity, value, and true base of the style.

Your ground fighting is "too secret" to discuss? Oh, brother!

The Four Hits are comprised of Punching, Kicking, Grappling, and Wrestling which in my book pretty much covers any conceivable violent encounter scenario.

Ti Da Shuai Na. That's pretty much what ALL KUNG FU is supposed to be.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you wanna be good at a specific skill, not matter what it is, you shoudl train with someone or in some system that excells at that specific skill and in terms of submission ground work that would be BJJ and submission grappling.

Nothing else around even comes close at this point in time.

[MasterKiller]

Since I learned in Cantonese I have no idea what Ti Da Shuai Na means.

Kick Strike Wrestle Lock

Sign up for my class if you want the details or better yet go ACTUALLY practice instead of SITTING at your desk antagonizing anyone with an opinion different from your own mr. keyboard warrior.

I don't have time to sign up for your classes. I'm too busy running my own.

[SevenStar]

All I can do is shake my head and say dayum...

[mickey]

Greetings,

This is a very strange thread because the argument is based on a historical disconnect. So, here it is:

Jiu Jitsu is a martial art that came to Japan from China. Though the grappling aspect has been emphasized in MMA, there are striking techniques as well. Ther really should be no shame to any practitioner of CMA to practice jiu jitsu. They are simply rounding out what may have been lost over time; or, even better, helping ensure their art's survival in the future.

I refer to call jiu jitsu as Sleeping Lohan technique, a term that arrived to me in a metaphysical epiphany.

mickey

[Fu-Pow]

How often do you do it? How much of your class time is spent exploring Tai Chi principles against wrestlers...against submission experts?

How often do you even fight full-contact stand-up in your Tai Chi class?

To these guys that are saying that stand up practice translates to the ground:

You fight how you train. If you never train to fight on the ground you will get pwned by someone that does...no matter how good your stand up game is.

From what I understand BJJ is very similar to Taiji on the ground. That is, its more about skill then raw strength. But if you never practice it then how you going to be able to do it under pressure?

Ridiculous!!!

FP

[PangQuan]

CMA groundwork is based on the assumption that if you fall down, the other guy will not follow you to the ground to wrestle. So, it's mostly attacks from the ground targeting a standing opponent, or movements to devised to get back on your feet as quickly as possible once you hit the ground.

agreed

why would you follow your opponent to the ground when you can just stab him with your straight sword...

[PangQuan]

to me, it seems that the link between stand up and the ground has been utterly lost or forgotten by the majority of CMA practitioners.

this blame falls on the masters.


all the more reason to cross train.


seriously, how many CMA schools out there can actually claim as extensive of a ground fighting/submission program as your average MMA school can?

show me one, then show me proof, then ill still doubt you....

[RonH]

to me, it seems that the link between stand up and the ground has been utterly lost or forgotten by the majority of CMA practitioners.

this blame falls on the masters.

all the more reason to cross train.

seriously, how many CMA schools out there can actually claim as extensive of a ground fighting/submission program as your average MMA school can?

show me one, then show me proof, then ill still doubt you....

So, you accept that someone could come up with 'evidence', yet you have entirely no interest in examining it? Since you have clearly shown your willingness to stack the deck on this question for your position, why would anyone want to bring evidence to you in the first place?

[Mega-Foot]

too much to read
i am going to say this
CMA dont have ground fighting because we chinese never fall to the ground =D
you must train more and harder if you do fall on the ground
hahaha
jk jk
=D

ARe you saying they can't fall to the ground because they're so short, y ou racist? As a Japanese American, student of a Sino-Japanese mixed master, I take great offence, and extend a cold-hearted invitation to my next kumite in September.