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Thread: CMA and groundfighting.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonH View Post
    So, you accept that someone could come up with 'evidence', yet you have entirely no interest in examining it? Since you have clearly shown your willingness to stack the deck on this question for your position, why would anyone want to bring evidence to you in the first place?
    i said, doubt.

    that in no way promotes total lack of interest in examination. rather it is exactly as it sounds. doubt.

    doubt can be overcome, yet to be doubtful of a situation which is highly sensitive and wrought with fraudulent claims is the best course to take to assure validity upon close scrutiny.

    so yes. show me proof via claim and support via the internet and yes, i will still doubt the validity of origination, until i can learn for myself otherwise.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Mega-Foot View Post
    ARe you saying they can't fall to the ground because they're so short, y ou racist? As a Japanese American, student of a Sino-Japanese mixed master, I take great offence, and extend a cold-hearted invitation to my next kumite in September.
    uh...i wasnt being racist,...i was saying..chinese martial art dont practice ground fighting..because we dont need to..because we never fall to the ground..becuase chinese martial art is the best.....
    and i was being sarscastic too..if u didnt realize....

    u can extend any invitation to me all u want. if u want to fite. come up to me and hit me. or else i aint fighting to prove anything
    thank you
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  3. #63
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    And by doing so, make it even harder for someone to convince you when you make generalized statements, like that. And regardless of previous claims that you perceive to be fradulent, it's immaterial. It's a matter of logic. Absorption of an attack, redirection of said attack and then, attacking yourself is not stand up dependent. Whether something is stand up dependent or groundwork dependent, it depends on how those 3 things are achieved.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    This is a very strange thread because the argument is based on a historical disconnect. So, here it is:

    Jiu Jitsu is a martial art that came to Japan from China. Though the grappling aspect has been emphasized in MMA, there are striking techniques as well. Ther really should be no shame to any practitioner of CMA to practice jiu jitsu. They are simply rounding out what may have been lost over time; or, even better, helping ensure their art's survival in the future.

    I refer to call jiu jitsu as Sleeping Lohan technique, a term that arrived to me in a metaphysical epiphany.

    mickey
    bad disconnect dude... that info CANNOT be proven. To date, there is no evidence that japanese jujutsu came from china. There are stories - such and the popular chen gempin story, but there are also holes in that story. There is no verifiable proof.
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  5. #65
    Hi SevenStar,

    I guess history does change. There was a time when this connection went without saying. No kidding.


    mickey

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonH View Post
    And by doing so, make it even harder for someone to convince you when you make generalized statements, like that. And regardless of previous claims that you perceive to be fradulent, it's immaterial. It's a matter of logic. Absorption of an attack, redirection of said attack and then, attacking yourself is not stand up dependent. Whether something is stand up dependent or groundwork dependent, it depends on how those 3 things are achieved.
    I never said i doubt the validity of ground material within the CMA community, its the utilization and whole sale teaching that is whats rare of said material.

    as i posed before, how many CMA schools can claim as solid of a ground/wrestling/submission training program as your standard MMA school can?

    if the material is so prevelant within CMA, why arent we seeing this type of ground program as a standard in CMA schools?

    its actually quite the opposite. percentile wise, out of 100% of CMA schools, how many of them truly address the ground issue to a full extent. not a half assed attempt but an actual fully developed system akin to BJJ or JJJ. sure you will see an incorporation of many throwing techniques, but often thats where it stops. We dont often see the follow up to the ground. In some cases yes, you do, but in many and i would be tempted to say most cases, you do not see this. And often when you see follow up to the ground, its generally not going to be of the mindset that your opponent will be well versed in a ground game.

    Now I have been to my fair share of CMA schools. Maybe its just my side of the country, but rarely do you find a good solid ground system in place at your average kwoon...

    this is the level of ground comprehension you generally wont see in a lot of CMA schools. IMO, and from what i have personally seen.
    A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
    ~Sima Qian

    Master pain, or pain will master you.
    ~PangQuan

    "Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
    ~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching

    You know you want to click me!!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Hi SevenStar,

    I guess history does change. There was a time when this connection went without saying. No kidding.


    mickey

    You mean like the Sun revolving around the Earth? That kind of thing?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkokusai View Post
    You mean like the Sun revolving around the Earth? That kind of thing?
    You mean it doesn't ???


  9. #69
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    Shhhhh! Don't tell anyone!

  10. #70
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    Let me guess!

    If someone falls, slips or is thrown and he is at the groundfighting stage, it tell me somethings has failed. Let me see: how do you submit the opponent?
    Did CMA work in this scenario?

  11. #71

    Ti Da Shuai Na

    I have never read or heard any where that these four aspects of CMA meant only stand up.Never at anytime that have I been learning,practicing, or teaching CMA did it ever come across my mind that all the same techniques could not be used in ground fighting. A punch is a punch a kick is a kick wrestling is wrestling and grappling is grappling.I have used them time and time again effectively .

    I must have some really great teachers.

    I find it hard to believe that if anyone of you runs a school and has been taught authentic CMA that you would have not learned CMA groundfighting.

    Physics are physics. Your anatomy,physiology, Bio-mechanics, center of gravity,etc. are the same on all three planes.

    Yes there are advantages and disadavntages to both, however, this is exactly what the Liang Yi ( yin yang) symbol represents.

    And I also must state that there many factors as to why CMA groundfighting are no longer practiced or taught in CMA and why it is a unknown or lost art in many schools.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by unkokusai View Post
    You mean like the Sun revolving around the Earth? That kind of thing?
    Perfect . You see most CMArtist believe that we do not have groundfighting like people use to believe that the Sun rotated around the Earth. Now in the light of new information we all now know that the Earth revolves around the Sun , maybe one day you all will be willing to accept that CMA has groundfighting.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post

    And I also must state that there many factors as to why CMA groundfighting are no longer practiced or taught in CMA and why it is a unknown or lost art in many schools.
    This is the aspect I have been touching on personally. Often times the most groundfighting you will see in a CMA school is minimal at most, and many times done in the midst of something else.

    its rare when you see a CMA school focus for a prolonged period of time on ground work. and even more rare to find a school that has a program in place like this with intimate and very advanced material being demonstrated and taught to a large and growing group of people.

    can someone link me a school that provides a ground system that is taught, practiced, and competed with, yet on the same level as BJJ or JJJ??

    please link this CMA school
    A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
    ~Sima Qian

    Master pain, or pain will master you.
    ~PangQuan

    "Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
    ~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching

    You know you want to click me!!

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    Perfect . You see most CMArtist believe that we do not have groundfighting like people use to believe that the Sun rotated around the Earth. Now in the light of new information we all now know that the Earth revolves around the Sun , maybe one day you all will be willing to accept that CMA has groundfighting.
    The Earth revolves around Helio.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by PangQuan View Post
    This is the aspect I have been touching on personally. Often times the most groundfighting you will see in a CMA school is minimal at most, and many times done in the midst of something else.

    its rare when you see a CMA school focus for a prolonged period of time on ground work. and even more rare to find a school that has a program in place like this with intimate and very advanced material being demonstrated and taught to a large and growing group of people.

    can someone link me a school that provides a ground system that is taught, practiced, and competed with, yet on the same level as BJJ or JJJ??

    please link this CMA school
    I recall that systems that train "ape" style, like Lionsroar and Hop Gar, have some sort of GnP.

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