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Thread: Hung Men/Hung Mun Hung Kuen--any evidence?

  1. #16
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    double "B" cool. thanks for your input.

    I've been fortunate to read the Hung Mun book thats out of print now.......but there is some real interesting things from back.

    From that book, and amongst other sources.......man of the southern Chinese men changed their first names to include HUNG in it to show their support.

    but im not sure what origins Hung Mun Kuen has. emei? hubei? not sure. but they said there's a hung mun hard qigong shaolin form out there.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    double "B" cool. thanks for your input.
    Sure... it wasn't that much.

    I've been fortunate to read the Hung Mun book thats out of print now.......but there is some real interesting things from back.
    I wasn't aware that there WAS "a book".

    From that book, and amongst other sources.......man of the southern Chinese men changed their first names to include HUNG in it to show their support.
    Interesting.... OTOH, there were names and "there were names"....
    Having multiple names was not particularly uncommon in "certain circles".

    but im not sure what origins Hung Mun Kuen has. emei? hubei? not sure. but they said there's a hung mun hard qigong shaolin form out there.
    I'm not in a position that I can say with any certainty that there was NOT a specific "Hung Men Kuen". OTOH, "lately", they haven't been particularly picky about what was being taught in their hall.... or even their "youth affiliate".
    That said, they're pretty much sure to be southern fist of one style or another, since I've yet to hear of any northern style being taught there.

  3. #18
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    yeah there was a book written by someone who infiltrated the Hung Mun, and pretty much documented everything he could from rituals to names and dates.

    my sifu has a copy of this book. very cool reading.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  4. #19
    Speaking of door/gate,etc.

    I can't remember just how I came across this school..but it is called "Hung Mei"(The Eyebrow or Face of Hung). They have schools in NY and Colorado. Anyway..They have some forms I have not heard of yet. I called them once and Sifu Solo was pretty down to earth. He gave me the translation of some of the names..about 5-6 forms..I can't find where I wrote it but I will post it soon. Some had interesting names such as "Rock Lion form" and "4 door 8 directional fist"(I believe).The "Juen" according to him is the phonetical pronunciation of Chuan. Anyway..check this out. I wonder if this school has relations to Hung Mun also. Anyway--does anyone know the translation to these?

    "From Tai Zŭ (Southern): 太祖 (南拳)

    Shù Quán 術拳
    Yīng Zhuă 鷹爪
    Tai Xíng Quán 太行拳

    From Fú Jian (Southern): 褔建 (南拳)

    Yī Mén 一門 Sì Mén 四門
    Èr Mén 二門 Liù Mén 六門
    Sān Mén 三門 Bā Mén 八門

    From Yŏng Quán (Southern): 永泉 (南拳)

    Shí Zì Quán 十字拳 Qī Shí Èr Dì Shā 七十二地煞
    Jīn Mén Quán 金門拳 Wŭ Lĭ Quán 五嶺拳
    Sān Shí Liù Tiān Gōng 三十六天宮

    Tai Jí (Southern): 太極 (南拳)

    Tai Jí Quán 太極拳
    Xiăo Fāng Jiā 小方家
    Lóng Hŭ Quán 龍虎拳

    From Shān Dōng (Northern): 山東 (北拳)

    Tán Tuĭ 彈腿 Bā Gua Quán 八卦拳
    Fú Hŭ Quán 伏虎拳 Dì Lóng Quán 地龍拳
    Hēi Hŭ Quán 黑虎拳 Da Hung Quán 大洪拳
    Bā Duan Toan Quán 八段拳 Xiăo Hung Quán 小洪拳


    The first Set the student learns is Tai Zŭ Yīng Zhuă (太祖鷹爪) (Eagle Claw form). The Set not only teaches applications of the Eagle Claw technique, but is also an excellent way to introduce the pupil to stance shifts, dynamic tension exercises and releases from wrist grabs. Subsequently, the student learns the series, "Tán Tuĭ" (彈腿), from the province of Shān Dōng (山東). Tán Tuĭ (彈腿) is practiced by many styles of Northern Kung Fu. There are 12 sequences in the series taught in Hung Méi. Some other styles have combined several of the sequences and now teach ten. Tán Tuĭ (彈腿) introduces the students to many different hand techniques, kicks, stances sweeps, shifts, etcetera, and forms the foundation for future applications.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    yeah there was a book written by someone who infiltrated the Hung Mun, and pretty much documented everything he could from rituals to names and dates.

    Is he still around?

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Erasmus Mingatt View Post
    I can't remember just how I came across this school..but it is called "Hung Mei"(The Eyebrow or Face of Hung)....
    Usually taken to mean "Red Brow".
    I usually write the family name as "H'ung"
    Trying to distinguish it from the near-soundex equivalents of "Hung"/"Hong" which are usually "Red"/"Flood" respectively.


    They have schools in NY and Colorado. Anyway..They have some forms I have not heard of yet. I called them once and Sifu Solo was pretty down to earth. He gave me the translation of some of the names..about 5-6 forms..I can't find where I wrote it but I will post it soon. Some had interesting names such as "Rock Lion form" and "4 door 8 directional fist"(I believe).The "Juen" according to him is the phonetical pronunciation of Chuan. Anyway..check this out. I wonder if this school has relations to Hung Mun also. Anyway--does anyone know the translation to these?
    IME, "XXX"-Mei are usually southern and/or Hakka.
    Those form names could easily be from a southern/Hakka/Mantis style.....

    The first Set the student learns is Tai Zŭ Yīng Zhuă (太祖鷹爪) (Eagle Claw form). The Set not only teaches applications of the Eagle Claw technique, but is also an excellent way to introduce the pupil to stance shifts, dynamic tension exercises and releases from wrist grabs. Subsequently, the student learns the series, "Tán Tuĭ" (彈腿), from the province of Shān Dōng (山東). Tán Tuĭ (彈腿) is practiced by many styles of Northern Kung Fu. There are 12 sequences in the series taught in Hung Méi. Some other styles have combined several of the sequences and now teach ten. Tán Tuĭ (彈腿) introduces the students to many different hand techniques, kicks, stances sweeps, shifts, etcetera, and forms the foundation for future applications.
    Tai Zu, Eagle Claw, Tan Tui are mostly northern.
    Tan Tui is also Muslim origin, and has come to mean/refer-to "Spring Leg" and doesn't have a whole lot of high-level hand-work. The 12 sequences are often referred to as "12 roads".
    Different lineages have different numbers of "roads", but they are all pretty much basic/beginner/foundation sets.... pretty much as you said.

  7. #22
    I'm going to post this question again as a separate post by itself to give it some more visability but while I still have your attention guys..I was hoping to get some feedback on this..

    I have heard of some styles of Hung Kuen that are considered "Hung" styles..yet not necessarily Hung Ga..yet at the same time..not the same as Hong Quan(the Northern long fist system-with the forms Da Hong Quan, Siu Hong Quan).

    From what I gather..it would seem that the "Hung" name in martial arts in terms of surnames,etc...is more like the surname Smith?

    Insofar as I could be "Erasmus Smith" and Sifu Frank could be "Frank Smith"(just as an illustration) yet neither of us could be related at all..not a single blood relative. Only common thread is the last name...

    So carrying over that analogy to Hung styles..does it then follow for example that you could have 2 "Hung Kuens"..but the only thing they have in common is the first word "Hung"?

    I know my explanation is not the best..but I am curious to know what any of you may think. Thank you.

    EM

  8. #23
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    im not sure if it's still going, but i thought there was a battle over two different types of Hung Ga?
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    yeah there was a book written by someone who infiltrated the Hung Mun, and pretty much documented everything he could from rituals to names and dates.

    my sifu has a copy of this book. very cool reading.
    This book you mean?
    http://www.amazon.com/Hung-Society-H...2669515&sr=8-1

    I have it as well, its *thick* havent found the time yet to read through it.

    Seems there is another book as well (reprint most liekly of above book, looking at the subtitle)
    http://www.amazon.com/Triads-Society...2669515&sr=8-4

  10. #25
    War? Now that I've never heard of. If you go to www.HungKuen.net there is a joint statement made by both GM Frank Yee and GM Lum Jo(Tang Fun and Lam Sai Wing lineages respectively). If anything it seems to be a honoring of eachothers respective lineages.

    I'm enjoying this thread..

    I absolutely must have a copy of that book!!

    All of this talk almost makes me want to go back to studying Hung Ga. I've heard Master John Leong's school to be very well established.

    We'll see...

    It's just that I don't like to cross fertilize study time so to speak. I've been studying and gaining alot from 8 step mantis..it's alot of things that Hung is not..but I can also say the same vice versa..

    So many styles..so little time...
    Last edited by Erasmus Mingatt; 06-24-2007 at 01:14 AM.

  11. #26
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    Hung Mun

    My sifu, Tse Cheuk-Tong is a general in the Hung Mun. He was never secretive about it, even advertised that he was honored to be a member. At the same time, nothing was ever spoken about training in the Hung League. One of his sons mentioned that if another group of lion dancers were in the presence of our lion, the other school's lion would have to bow to ours. I always assumed this was because of the Hung association. Tse sifu practiced Tibetan White Crane, Hop Ga and Choy Lee Fut, among other things, and taught some of these arts to members of various tongs.

  12. #27
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    In Leung Tings books Five Patteren Hung Kuen in the Tiger section it says
    Tactics of this form are twofold , namely the Hung Mun (Red Sect ) tactic in wich open attacks are adopted and the Hak Mun (Black Sect ) tactic in wich surprise attacks are adopted . Techniques of this form are classified under the two terms White Tiger and Black Tiger .
    then it list poetic names for techniques from these sects .

  13. #28
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    [QUOTE=Erasmus Mingatt;772430]
    Does anyone know of any forms..or their names..or what their kf resembles?QUOTE]


    Hi. Resurrecting an old thread because of some new (to me) info from a friend who is an enforcer in the Hung Mun.

    Don't know of any universally accepted or unique Hung Mun style. BUT...my contact teaches a form of Bak Mei (White Eyebrow) within the Mun that he will not teach outsiders. He implied that this branch of Bak Mei was passed on only within the Hung League.

    2 questions I didn't think to ask at the time:
    1) Is this relationship between the Hung and Bak Mei in honor of a particular master who once served the Hung Mun?
    2) Is this a widespread association or peculiar to certain branches in Southeast Asia and the western U.S.?

    Be well.

    John

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