Alan Orr Body Structure

[Ultimatewingchun]

"But if you learn to absorb some of that force down the middle, without taking a step back (giving space per say), then you will be able to react faster and have less need for footwork." (James)


***That's a BIG "if", James...

[sihing]

"But if you learn to absorb some of that force down the middle, without taking a step back (giving space per say), then you will be able to react faster and have less need for footwork." (James)


***That's a BIG "if", James...

I don't think so, but everything is relative. I'd rather rely on stability and absorbtion first, then flashy excessive footwork. One can take a ton more work to maintain than the other. I'm not saying this way is the be all end all, but it is a skill you can use to help achieve a goal, just like everything else we learn in WC and other Martial Arts.

James

[t_niehoff]

What I'm saying is that the BASIC principle is that if you apply substantial force to a point DIRECTLY in the middle (and halfway between) where his legs are posted - there's nothing there to absorb it and the man will be moved.

This is what many believe simply because they haven't seen, or more importantly felt, this mechanic in action.

The body structure we're talking about involves learning to use the body as a spring so that it absorbs (swallows) pressure. This is in direct contrast to bracing, where a leg is needed ss a post for support when resisting. With the body structure we're talking about, the body's natural "springs" are coordinated so that pressure is "spring loaded" and not resisted. This is actually "borrowing" the opponent's force. Robert and I both have written articles describing this.

For someone who has developed this skill, it works regardless of where you press or how you press. From our perspective, the YJKYM is this body structure, this spring load mechanic.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is what many believe simply because they haven't seen, or more importantly felt, this mechanic in action.

The body structure we're talking about involves learning to use the body as a spring so that it absorbs (swallows) pressure. This is in direct contrast to bracing, where a leg is needed ss a post for support when resisting. With the body structure we're talking about, the body's natural "springs" are coordinated so that pressure is "spring loaded" and not resisted. This is actually "borrowing" the opponent's force. Robert and I both have written articles describing this.

For someone who has developed this skill, it works regardless of where you press or how you press. From our perspective, the YJKYM is this body structure, this spring load mechanic.

Video.....

[Ultimatewingchun]

I would imagine then, that such technique should be able to stop any and all takedowns: single leg shoots, double leg shoots, leg picks and dives, throws, sweeps, leg trips...everything. (Since they all work off the BASIC unbalancing principles I described).

Whoa....can't wait to see this video!

[reneritchie]

Victor,

The mechanics are specifically designed to handle force applied through the mid-line. (There are ways to break it -- very specifically mentioned in some basic WCK), but force through the mid-line isn't it. While no tripod is present (insert jokes), the alignment is such that a "virtual" tripod supports the force (other MA, like Taiji, make use of virtual lines for support as well).

Also, what's shown in the article is the basic, kindergarten mechanics.

Like any WCK, they start off in the static YJKYM and then move through turning and stepping, etc. with the same mechanical advantages.

One way to think of the different body methods in WCK is like thinking of Tan, Fook, Bong. Tan is not Fook, yet both work under certain conditions. If you understand the conditions, you can do great things with them. If you look at them without understanding the conditions, you may think them useless.

BTW- Most YJKYM, regardless of system, look at times like they're begging for a suplex or double leg of sorts. That's why, IMHO, we have specific body postures that present a less attractive target (you can see them in some lineages basic hand sets).

[Ultimatewingchun]

I'd need to see a "virtual tripod" work against a good double leg shoot before I could believe it, Rene.

Video...



(Unless you're talking about a nice sprawl).

[Wayfaring]

Victor, it can be done. One of the keys is that you are not in a "locked out" stance to begin with. You are sinking the stance as the force is applied; you also have to maintain body alignment (3 points) - but it is all in the articles. You have to play with it. Better if you have a qualified CSLWCK practitioner to guide you through it. It is not at all bogus.

Without all the family specific jargon this basically describes moving the hips and torso forward of a typical back-weighted WC stance and the "springs" are weight centered on K1 as opposed to heels, or weight on balls of feet as opposed to weight back towards heels, etc.

While this is a somewhat novel idea to many in the WC community, it really doesn't differ much from a good athletic stance in most sports. I'm sure I'll get a lot of flack for this, but to me it's retraining basic athletic stances and basic athletic movement.

Why this is novel I'm not sure. I had instructors do stance stability tests pushing you in different directions in TKD in the 80's.

[Wayfaring]

I'd need to see a "virtual tripod" work against a good double leg shoot before I could believe it, Rene.

Video...



(Unless you're talking about a nice sprawl).

Hey Victor,

I've got your "virtual tripod"
Or at least that's what she told me....

[JPinAZ]

I would imagine then, that such technique should be able to stop any and all takedowns: single leg shoots, double leg shoots, leg picks and dives, throws, sweeps, leg trips...everything. (Since they all work off the BASIC unbalancing principles I described).

Whoa....can't wait to see this video!

I can see what these guys are talking about regarding testing thier structures against a push. What they are saying makes sense, and I can make my YJKYM work against similar tests. I don't see why this is so difficult for you Vic.

I am having a hard time seeing anywhere where they claimed thier body structures, or how they test them, equates to being able to withstand all those takedowns. It seem like you are just arguing to argue here. How did conclude that they are saying this 'technique' was able to stop all these things?
Or do you just have a very active imagination when you say "I would imagine then..."

[Ultimatewingchun]

Because all the takedowns I referred to are based upon the grappling principle that the article claims can be circumvented with a good YJKYM structure.

What's so hard to understand about that?

[Wayfaring]

Because all the takedowns I referred to are based upon the grappling principle that the article claims can be circumvented with a good YJKYM structure.

Yeah - that's BS - it can help present a smaller target and help you sprawl from there easier.

[JPinAZ]

Because all the takedowns I referred to are based upon the grappling principle that the article claims can be circumvented with a good YJKYM structure.

What's so hard to understand about that?

I didn't read the article, just going by what was said here... I'll read the article later when I get some time - sounds 'interesting'

[Ultimatewingchun]

Now you're talking my language, Wayfaring. A good wing chun body structure + sprawl =

a nice takedown defense.

[JPinAZ]

OR, a good WC body structure, supported by correct understanding of gates, distance, timing, anti-grabbing (chi sau), CL theories, etc = good takedown defense (stop it before it happens).

Sprawl only after all those fail...

flame on