Claims about MMA

[Notintheface]

Someone please school this guy on basic body mechanics and power generation.

Fu pow

You can knock someone clear across the room. When you understand "short energy" in Taiji you can fold your opponent in half with a quick pulse. Its actually scary.

Fahjing is not hard to display, especially short energy, but knocking a person clear across the room. GoD DAM boy, stop watching Taichi master.


Fupow

Its unique and different but again it is a qualitative difference and hard for me to quantify for you.

Will someone please explain to Fu pow the way he is using qualitative incorrectly.
He is is trying to express a phenomenon measured in kind, that is, non-numerical units. For example, color is a qualitative variable, because it cannot be expressed simply as a number.

What he should be using is called quantitative variable: phenomenon measured in amounts, that is, numerical units. For example, length is a quantitative variable.

But a shoulder strike, Fahjing of any kind, is measured by output of force as well as it being dictated by body mechanics. (See quote below from Fu pow to demonstrate power output)

Fu pow
When you do a shoulder strike in Taiji and you really know how to do it. You can knock someone clear across the room. When you understand "short energy" in Taiji you can fold your opponent in half with a quick pulse. Its actually scary.
qualitative variable

The shoulder strike or any blow would be measured through quantitative analysis.
As in, the numerical representation and manipulation of observations for the purpose of describing and explaining the phenomena that those observations reflect.

[Knifefighter]

Palm strike can have wicked power if used with the right setup and forward drive, I posted a vid awhile back of a standing powerslap street ko that was on the money, and as for the closed fist does more damage than a palm heel, where do you get that data from??

In the context of what enviroment...mma, self defense studies??

As I said, I saw a fighter get KO'ed by a one strike palm hit. I'm not saying you can't develop power under ideal circumstances.

However...

I've fought both ways. Overall, closed fist does more damage.

Biomechanically, closed fist is a more efficient way to deliver strikes.

[Fu-Pow]

That demo is with a partner who is not only complying, but also jumping back.

No.

LOL @ that "shoulder strike". Want to learn how to shoulder strike and be about 10 times as effective as the junk shown on that clip? Just play a year or two of football.

Not the same thing.

[Fu-Pow]

I started throwing insults????

Started trying to downgrade my involvement in CLF and pull rank on me. That's called argumentum ad hominem, look it up. I never insulted you personally (until you did the same) I insulted your argument. There's a difference.

See, sign of stress, feeling attacked and insulted by anyone disagreeing with you.
I disagreed with technical points you've made, you started swearing, making allusions about my teacher and the quality of my kung fu, and accusing me of training unrealistic techniques

Leave the arm chair psychology at home.

Like I said, you started it. Seems like you've had it in for me on this and other parts of the forum ever since I critiqued CLF in the Southern Forum.

[Fu-Pow]

You've been doing this stuff for 10+ years, with the last year done quite seriously and you still can't make it work consistently?

Not "make it work." Not able to embody the true qualitative difference in Taiji movement as well as my teacher.

Somebody has been drinking too much of the Kool-Aide.

I don't even like Kool-ade.

[Knifefighter]

No.

If you think that is not jumping back, you are clueless. You need to mix it up with some real grapplers to see what really happens when one gets "pushed".

[LeeCasebolt]

I wish I was at the level where I could demonstrate what I'm talking about, but honestly I'm not.

That's why I'm not understanding the resistance to it.

FP

The first sentence answers the second. When MMA proponents make an assertion, they (as a rule) back it up with personal demonstration or video footage from a competitive format. When tai chi proponents make an assertion, they (as a rule) ascribe capabilities to others rather than themselves, decline to demonstrate live, and are unable or unwilling to provide competitive video documentation.

My question is, why should an MMA practitioner believe you?

[Knifefighter]

Below is an example of one of the methods on how I train my power slaps, in world war two they had the nickname of jap slappin, a lot of power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZacZ-_-fQ4

Do that same strike with a closed fist and you will multiply the damage done.

You can easily prove this. Turn your back and have your training partner do that open hand strike into your upper back. Then do the same thing with him using a closed fist. I think it will be pretty apparent which of those you would be able to take more of.

[Black Jack II]

I've fought both ways. Overall, closed fist does more damage.

The fist sure does tell a story, I believe the power punches in boxing are some of the most effective hand to hand blows of any system on Earth but I keep a number of open hand blows that I really believe are very effective.

Basically powerslaps from the fence, open hand face smash, chinjab, web of hand blow, shuto, and a Sweeny Kempo circular whipping palm.

As for doing that strike with a closed fist, yeah I know it hurts like a *****, but it does not generate the same overall blanket effect I am looking for in regard to the powerslap, to be fair latter this week I will go back and work it out some more.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The fist sure does tell a story, I believe the power punches in boxing are some of the most effective hand to hand blows of any system on Earth but I keep a number of open hand blows that I really believe are very effective.

Basically powerslaps from the fence, open hand face smash, chinjab, web of hand blow, shuto, and a Sweeny Kempo circular whipping palm.

As for doing that strike with a closed fist, yeah I know it hurts like a *****, but it does not generate the same overall blanket effect I am looking for in regard to the powerslap, to be fair latter this week I will go back and work it out some more.

The fact that you say "slap" shows what you have been exposed to.
Empty handed fist hook VS someone's skull
Circular Plam strike VS the same area.

Need more proof besides comparing the anatomical weakness of both?

Try punching a concrete slap ( yes, a REAL one), and then try palm striking it.

Have a makiwara?
Drill it as hard as you can with your fist, then your palm.

Thing is, very few people train the open hand like they do the closed fist.

Wanna see the power of the open hand?
Visit a bagua fighter ( notice I said fighter).

A closed fist well cause more superficial pain and damage - bone on bone does that, even bone on muscle.

Now, you can always be a real freak and put on a crash helmet and have someone drill you with a closed fist and then a palm and see the difference, and they you MUST try to do it yourself too, remember, bare knuckle.

[sanjuro_ronin]

FYI, there is a shoulder strike in kenjutsu, pretty much most systems have it, Musashi eludes to it in his book, called the "body strike".

[Fu-Pow]

The first sentence answers the second. When MMA proponents make an assertion, they (as a rule) back it up with personal demonstration or video footage from a competitive format.

Hardly ever. They often demonstrate professional fighters demonstrating a technique. It is no indication that they can pull it off only that SOMEONE can pull it off. Maybe that person is a savant?

My Taiji teacher can pull off all kinds of stuff that I can't, he's a professional. He trains umpteen hours/day. So what? It doesn't say anything about what I can do.

When tai chi proponents make an assertion, they (as a rule) ascribe capabilities to others rather than themselves, decline to demonstrate live, and are unable or unwilling to provide competitive video documentation.

My question is, why should an MMA practitioner believe you?

I'd say that's just as true for most MMA adherents.

The only MMA adherent on this board I've seen post a video is Knifefighter so I know he at least half-way knows what he's talking about.

[Fu-Pow]

FYI, there is a shoulder strike in kenjutsu, pretty much most systems have it, Musashi eludes to it in his book, called the "body strike".

Other styles have them...in Taiji its a specialty which is what I originally said (despite those trying to put words on the page for me). Its also a specialty of other styles like Baji.

Why never see them in MMA? And yes, I will want to see a video.

FP

[Black Jack II]

The fact that you say "slap" shows what you have been exposed to.

Don't go mistaking the use of a term on the internet as a indication of what a person has or has not been exposed to and for the record I used the word powerslap.

I could of gone with any number of terms I have learned the technique under, tapak gampar in silat, hampak in kali, shotei uchi in jujitsu, cupped hand blow and jap slappin are others.

Plus if you went into my garage you would find a nice old bike helmet wrapped in gray tape sitting by a Meade Telescope.

Cupped hand blows are a excellent gross motor based tool if applied with forward drive and power that use a natural arc of the body for damage. I consider it a major counter-offensive tool that is easy to learn and ramps up well on the teaching time for new students.

Plus why go see a bagua fighter when you can go visit a silat player or panatuken maestro who also use the heavy hand.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Don't go mistaking the use of a term on the internet as a indication of what a person has or has not been exposed to and for the record I used the word powerslap.

I could of gone with any number of terms I have learned the technique under, tapak gampar in silat, hampak in kali, shotei uchi in jujitsu, cupped hand blow and jap slappin are others.

Plus if you went into my garage you would find a nice old bike helmet wrapped in gray tape sitting by a Meade Telescope.

Cupped hand blows are a excellent gross motor based tool if applied with forward drive and power that use a natural arc of the body for damage. I consider it a major counter-offensive tool that is easy to learn and ramps up well on the teaching time for new students.

Plus why go see a bagua fighter when you can go visit a silat player or panatuken maestro who also use the heavy hand.

Oh, I like the way you think
You should plam strike "like" you punch and just as you don't "slap punch" you don't slap palm strike.
Look at the bio-mechanical motion of a slap VS let's say a hammer fist with the same elbow postioning ( those in the know will know why I mention the elbow).
People think "slap" when the strike they will slap and not get the power they want/need.

Do that simple test with anyone, have them slap a focus mitt and have then hit it with a hammerfist.