!953 Kung Fu Fight on Yutube

[PangQuan]

lol @ anything on video being a demonstration of "the olden days" Video wasnt around in the real golden days.


And yes, 1953 is a long time ago, when you are comparing the rate of adaption and world wide sharing of knowledge. Things tend to speed up and be more open when the entire world is watching.

I wasnt alive.

Most pro fighters you see today were not even twinkles in the eye's of their parents during that time. So in context with todays current active fighters, 1953 was before their lives, so it was in fact a long time ago.

These guys that fight now days are where the bar is set. Its in your face, its in the open, anyone can see the outcome and method development of modern fighters. our current champions in the arena of sport fighting are all products of our modern age and all that goes into the development of future affairs.

in 1953 the world was a very different place, the state of modern fighters is quite enough proof to show how much can change in 64 years. sure you may say that fighting has not changed in the past 5 million years, BUT it is the perception of man that DOES change. Truth in combat will never change, though the mind of man is in a constant state of flux due to the intake of everyday experiences.

show me a video from 1953 that has full contact fighting, kicks, punches, throws, etc. Bet you wont find one.

[Notintheface]

I love you <3

[htowndragon]

ur line does go through wong yan lum for two reasons:

1. hop gar line believes that wong lam hoi was wong yan lums student rather than hing-dai, this is the sketchy one, no one will know or agree on this

2. george long was at one point harry ng's disciple, and therefore my si bak. the white crane that u guys do is different from chan hak fu's other disciples, with heavy hop gar influence.


as for the fight, my sifu david chin thinks that they both look scared to hit each other, if chan hak fu had charged in with his punches (which he didn't) instead of trying to not get hit while executing them, wu gong yi woulda been f-ed up.

[lkfmdc]

jih wu bouh vs chat sing bouh

that is the answer to that entire fight, IF you know the system......

[htowndragon]

i don't know what kind of foot work bak hok uses, as described by my sifu, bak hok is the closest of the three tibetan systems that resemble choy lay fut in terms of how they move. he says bak hok uses the "lohan system" of lions roar (one step forward and hit) whereas we in hop gar mix the "white crane" and "lohan" systems in our long range fighting, with the "white crane system" being the core.

but chan hak fu just kinda stood there

i used "triangle stepping", what my sifu calls "double shooting step" (sam chai seaurng jin bou) in combo with chyuun, pao, cup, gwa in a street boxing match against someone 40 lbs heavier than me, they had to stop the match because i was beating on him so hard. the footwork makes all the difference

[David Jamieson]

technique is only good if you can land it optimally.

In a form, they are utterly useless beyond training them. If you don't take it beyond moving in air, then it will take you nowhere.

Make it work! Those guys couldn't because they didn't practice to make it work. they practiced to gain face, students, money and reputation without the hard work beyond the early years of stance training.

ridiculous.

and there's no such thing as "tibetan" martial arts except in name and that is a courtesy of the chinese.

the dalai Lama has said on more than one occasion that tibet, outside of it;s military, which it hasn't really had since the 1700's or so and has had no significant victories for a thousand years before that, doesn't and haven't had any martial arts codified.

White Crane is Chinese Martial arts attributed to Tibetans as a courtesy and an inclusiveness into Chinese society as a whole.

There was a form of argument that would occur wherein Lamaists would strike fearsome warrior poses as they drove their points home, and to me, this would be akin to the marriage of qigong/dhayana to martial art that occured in buddhist, taoist, mohist and other temples in china.

anyway, im sure ross can go on and on about it, but there aren't any bonafide "tibetan" martial arts.

[lkfmdc]

anyway, im sure ross can go on and on about it, but there aren't any bonafide "tibetan" martial arts.

no point in trying to educate a closed mind.... believe what you want

[David Jamieson]

no point in trying to educate a closed mind.... believe what you want

set me straight.

[monji112000]

amazing clip! I think I am going to look up their respective schools and join them!

Originally Posted by David Jamieson
the dalai Lama has said on more than one occasion that tibet, outside of it;s military, which it hasn't really had since the 1700's or so and has had no significant victories for a thousand years before that, doesn't and haven't had any martial arts codified.

well we know we can trust the dalai lama... wtf do you know anything about Tibet and the history of what the lama's and the feudalism did in Tibet? I would take everything he says and believe the opposite.

I have said it before and I will repeat it... its great let people think that this stuff is the "real" kung fu... its part of natures natural selection.

I am sure I can go post about 100 BS fighting clips by so called Wing Chun fighters. I love Wing Chun, but we tend to have allot of crap..

sparring with gloves = better fighter its that simple. BUT that doesn't mean that bad technqiues don't work.. they do when practiced enough

[lkfmdc]

set me straight.

1. To assume an ancient culture located in a savage land, which also at one point had an extensive EMPIRE, never developed fighting arts is silly on the face of it

2. history of course teaches us about the hoseman warriors, their skills with knives, swords and spears. These same warriors rode into battle against Chinese tanks during the invasion and got decimated, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist

3. A prominent Shaolin Lo Han instructor who I know has worked out with the monks who are the Dalai Lama's bodyguards. The martial art they practice is considered a national security secret, ie better for people to assume he is not protected

4. In a famous German account of Tibet before the invasion, they refer to an inner monastery martial art which, surprisingly, has movements based upon the famous scenes fo Buddhist imagry

5. I have a student who is married to a Tibetan and lived in Northern India in the exile community. He saw plenty of martial art

I could go on, but of course, because YOU say so, it can't possibly be true

[Black Jack II]

A prominent Shaolin Lo Han instructor who I know has worked out with the monks who are the Dalai Lama's bodyguards. The martial art they practice is considered a national security secret, ie better for people to assume he is not protected

Oh, you mean Stephen K. Hayes. Heh.

[lkfmdc]

Oh, you mean Stephen K. Hayes. Heh.

No, not at all.... like I said a SHAOLIN LO HAN SYSTEM person, which Hayes is clearly not

[Black Jack II]

No, not at all.... like I said a SHAOLIN LO HAN SYSTEM person, which Hayes is clearly not

It was a....joke.

[David Jamieson]

1. To assume an ancient culture located in a savage land, which also at one point had an extensive EMPIRE, never developed fighting arts is silly on the face of it

2. history of course teaches us about the hoseman warriors, their skills with knives, swords and spears. These same warriors rode into battle against Chinese tanks during the invasion and got decimated, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist

3. A prominent Shaolin Lo Han instructor who I know has worked out with the monks who are the Dalai Lama's bodyguards. The martial art they practice is considered a national security secret, ie better for people to assume he is not protected

4. In a famous German account of Tibet before the invasion, they refer to an inner monastery martial art which, surprisingly, has movements based upon the famous scenes fo Buddhist imagry

5. I have a student who is married to a Tibetan and lived in Northern India in the exile community. He saw plenty of martial art

I could go on, but of course, because YOU say so, it can't possibly be true

It doesn't have anything to do with my say so and you know it. But anyway, It's more of a case of you believe what you want and by all means continue to be the only publisher of these "facts" of yours. lol.

now, I'll speak to your points.

1. your #1 amounts to tautology. It says nothing and in and of itself is a silly statement. Please indicate factual materials that back your claim up.

2. What history? Where? A byline from an anecdote in some persona reckoning of what may have occured is not History Dave. Nor is it indicative of codified martial arts systems being propogated in Tibet at any point in time. I can find out all sort fo information on Lamaism, Buddhism, it's ties with teh ancient Bon practices but alas, there is nothing about martial practices in any of this. Unlike the Chinese, japanese and others who have long standing and well recorded martial traditions in their cultures.

3. This is mere hearsay. Also only slightly sensationalist with a slight hint of total BS. Not your finest whine.

4. German? You talking about Harrar's book? Please indicate chapter and verse? I can't seem to remember that from the book or Brad Pitts movie of the same name. Unless you're referring to another famous german in tibet.

5. Sure he did, Tae kwon do, karate, hap kido, maybe even some kungfu and kalari, but I'll wager he didn't see move one of any "Tibetan" martial art.

Finally, yes, I'm sure you could go on and on and on. Like I said before. BUt I'm surprised that someone who makes all the claims of knowledge and such taht you do doesn't know that there is no formalized codified traditional tibetan martial arts in a for real sense and there never has been. This has been confirmed by the Dalai Lama himself and avrious other rinpoche Lama's who live all over the world.

I would urge people to pick up a copy of tricycle now and again.

[lkfmdc]

Ah, the deny history and hope no one notices argument.......

There are tons of books of Tibetan history, do I need to cite them all? Tibet had a huge empire. Their mounter warriors are well documented. If you deny that all, you're just trolling

My student knew quite well what Karate or Hapkido looked like, and what he saw in the communities in Northern Inda was none of that. Kalari is from SOUTHERN INDIA.... quite removed from the Tibetan community in exile

I happen to like the Dalai Lama, but you realize he doesn't acknowledge the centuries of despotic rule, Tibetan slavery, Tibetan aggression (ie the empire) or anything that takes away from his current effort to win support for the Tibetan independence movement

Again, you can chose to keep your mind closed, but don't expect others to believe things just because you say so