The Original Shaolin Kuei
It's about as real as pro wrestling.Originally Posted by lkfmdc
anyone see the trend here
The "real" martial art of Aikido... which no one seems to be able to demonstrate
The "real" ground grappling of CMA,... which no one seems to able to demonstrate
YET, and this is the best part, according to the lunatic here, the UFC is fake
Troll Slayer
congratulations Tattoo, now mega-fool is your buddy, THAT is an achievement
Mega/John/Turd.... you do realize your act is old, stale and crusty, like your moma's panties
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
Registered User
Great.
GKK 4 LIFE
why
it is documented that ueshiba trained in china
both arts have a very circular theme to them
why is it unreasonable to make a link between the 2 ?
not only that but he said he didnt know if it was true or not
it was a perfectly good question and topic
so maybe u just need to calm down
there are only masters where there are slaves
www.myspace.com/chenzhenfromjingwu
GKK 4 LIFE
alot of that is true
but then u find that in almost all CMA aswell including ba gua zhang
not only that but there is a reason the police in tokyo are affiliated with a well known aikido dojo who operate their riot police course
i guess weither an art is useless or not depends entirely on what u put into it and how u train huh ?
as i said before CALM DOWN
and simply adress what was said with out mocking the guy
there are only masters where there are slaves
www.myspace.com/chenzhenfromjingwu
GKK 4 LIFE
see now u could have left it at that
mommas panties ?
was that necessary ?
what did it have to do with anything ?
CHILL B!TCH CHILLLLL - samuel l jackson
there are only masters where there are slaves
www.myspace.com/chenzhenfromjingwu
Homicidal puppet
Quite right.
I suspect it was some form of PTSD that influenced his post-war disintegration into a religious maniac since he'd spent most of his earlier years avoiding the worst of the ravings of Takeda.
His pre-war stuff was as practical as any of the kodokan, as you can see by the list of some of the kodokan people who challenged him. This is documented. It's not online AFAIK or care, but it's well documented.
I know in this phase of revisionist bullsh!t based only on what has ever been videoed this is an anathema, but tough.
There's good and bad in all of them. I know of aikikai schools who practice with very free very resistant training, I know Yoshinkan that's so by the numbers it really reallt sucks unless you are an aibo, and I know of people (including one of my teachers) who demonstrate how modern daito-ryu has lost any fighting applicability by teaching it's old-school body skills.Aikikai is very much still O-Sensei influenced but there are branches/dojo's venturing into practical aikido, the Yoshinkan has always been more practical, but only after the BB level.
Tomiki is very sport oriented.
The Daitoryu still exsists today.
LKFMDC: stick to your history of CMA. You're at risk of making an idiot of yourself with your statements about practical aikido just being judo. They're sister arts. When I've used aikido practically the way I was taught in sparring and da 5tr33t of course it looks like judo or jujutsu, with more strikes than either. And as for jujutsu having no relevance, again you're talking out of pure ignorance. I've met JJJers who've been training the same stuff as BJJ for longer... and yes, they regularly fight in Deep, Pancrase and Shooto over here: the world's bigger than NYC, BJJ and US shows like UFC, you know. Of course there aren't as many because BJJ has the better marketing machine and had the high level sports profile from the start, but it's still there.
Finally: aikido has nothing to do with bagua. Ueshiba went to Manchuria as part of an invasion force which saw hand-to-hand fighting. Do any of you really think some bagua master of that generation would just show this invader their skills? Apart from differences in movement (although there are also many similarities). Plus, however fake daito-ryu may be (there is no evidence to suggest it is as old as the lineage-holders say) its roots are definitely jujutsu from before Ueshiba. Maybe centuries ago there was some cross-fertilization, but it's all speculation.
its safe to say that I train some martial arts. Im not that good really, but most people really suck, so I feel ok about that - Sunfist
Sometime blog on training esp in Japan
Registered User
Aikido has the "potential" to be a real martial art. Unfortunately most schools today teach spiritual nonsense that has no real practical value. Like lkfmdc stated, its mostly based on unrealistic attacks and compliance.
That said, it is rooted in solid principles. However, I would recommend anyone to study Judo first, and then move on to Aikido (if they want to). Judo is far more practical and its very nature goes against compliance. Not to make this into a style debate, but Judo has proved its worth in NHB and other sports competitions for years now. I think the problem a lot of people have is that Judo isn't a "pretty" martial art. You have mostly big burly men throwing each other around and/or wrestling each other on the ground. Its not as pretty as dancing around in a Hakama, and consequently there aren't as many attractive ladies in Judo either.
However if you want to really learn how to defend yourself, there's not many MAs better than Judo. Every brawl I've witnessed goes into a clinch. Judo teaches you how to deal with a clinch. People want to learn how to defend themselves against larger opponents. Chances are, you aren't going to be the largest guy in the class. People want to learn how to fight on the ground. Gracie Jujitsu comes from Judo newaza and both schools are pretty mixed these days.
I wont comment on Bagua since I haven't run across any Bagua schools in my neck of the woods. However, I just have this to say; Some people just want to wear pretty outfits and do circular dances with swords in their hands.
Last edited by BigPandaBear; 07-12-2007 at 05:13 AM.
Troll Slayer
Have to look around for a clip, but there is footage of an American with NO TRAINING asking one of Ueshiba's top students to fight him, in the subsequent match, one of the TOP GUYS in Aikido couldn't do a darn thing to a guy with NO TRAINING... very well documented. If I find the clip, all the better of course
No, you've met people who took the randori concept from Judo and yet continued to use the "jujitsu" name. Classical Japanese Jujitsu DIED after the police college challenge (which was well before any MMA era in case you weren't aware).
After the police college challenge nothing was ever teh same
Again, those that are competing are doing randori, they are actively rolling
And the techniques they use look NOTHIGN like aikido
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
Homicidal puppet
1) This has zero relevance to the part of my post you snipped above it.
2) Who was the top guy? Was he a pre-war student? Where is it documented and by whom? And yeah, vid would be interesting, not because I don't believe you, but because I want to see it.
3) Even if that was the case, what would it prove about Ueshiba's aikido? I already said his pre-war stuff was good and the rest not so... and in fact I would probably go so far as to say by the time he was teaching mainstream he'd already started to lose it: having seen footage of him in 1935 doing typical aiki floaty BS. But even if that7s what he was teachign doesn7t mean he wasn'T solid before then.
Where are you getting this? Mark Tripp? I don't remember him saying that. Of course they used the randori concept and still called it jujutsu... what the hell do you think Carlos and Helio Gracie did? So what's to say jujutsu died? Sounds like it adapted to me... but since judo came from jujutsu anyway, I don't know how you can say that jujutsu adopting the judo sports model means that in some way jujutsu sold out or died or disappeared or whatever.No, you've met people who took the randori concept from Judo and yet continued to use the "jujitsu" name. Classical Japanese Jujitsu DIED after the police college challenge (which was well before any MMA era in case you weren't aware).
Again, your point? Your ideas of classical staid battlefield jujutsu have been surpassed by rolling and competitive models, and this means jujutsu itself is somehow lacking? I really don't get your drift.Again, those that are competing are doing randori, they are actively rolling
Of course crap JJJ still exists, but there's also good JJJ.
I never said it did. I said good aiki looks like JJ, not the other way round. It's the same as the good CMA looks lik good kickboxing or whatever argument. The only difference is that competition is still frowned upon in most aiki circles for whatever argument, so you don't get (m)any competitors.And the techniques they use look NOTHIGN like aikido
its safe to say that I train some martial arts. Im not that good really, but most people really suck, so I feel ok about that - Sunfist
Sometime blog on training esp in Japan
Lama Pai & Choy Lay Fut
Brain cells don't "rejuvinate". They don't even 'regenerate'. That is why people don't get 'smarter' as they get older...lol
Maybe you should stop getting hit in the head for awhile and give your body a chance to rejuvinate those brains cells before that option is no long possible.
They are the only cells in the body that don't grow back.
Troll Slayer
Obviously, and I don't mean this an insult, but you aren't getting my argument here
Aikido is not a fighting art. Any attempt to make it so is just "reversion" to older Aikijujitsu, ie older classical jujitsu, but I'll get to that in a minute
I honestly wished I remembered all the details because it would make finding the clip a lot easier. American film crew was filming Ueshiba and one of his top guys, it may even be the founder of Tomiki Aikido but dont' quote me, I am NOT sure
One of the Americans was really skeptical about the demonstration. He persisted, to the point they felt they had to try and "save face". In his socks, with no training, the guy does some really bad boxing and the Aikido guy's nose starts to bleed I think. He ultimately just charges in and sort of holds him down. The whole episode was very embarassing, top student of famous martial artist looks like crap vs guy with NO TRAINING at all. Ergo, the idea Aikido is much of a fighting art is very questionable
But when you start doing randori, by definition you are not doing classical jujitsu. Classical jujitsu died after the police college, that's just a point of fact
that's an entirely different thread, but suffice to say, BJJ is not Classical Jujitsu, it is a child of Judo, just like sambo and San da
there are only two "models", those that work and those that don't. Without randori, a martial art is destined for failure. With randori, what it practices and how it practices will of course change
Aikido has no randori. It's "signature moves" require unrealistic attacks and compliant partners.
If you show me a guy doing o-soto gar into juji gatame, I don't care if his hakama says "Aikido", it is not aikido, it isn't even Aikijujitsu, it is a derivative of Judo, ie a derivative of randori
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
Registered User
Nicely demonstrated...lol j/k
GM of Hadaka Korosu
there is also the anecdote of Shioda "taking out" one of JFKs bodygurads( I think it was JFK) with Aikido in a "friendly" exhibition of aikido.
Unregistered User
whats all this?
A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
~Sima Qian
Master pain, or pain will master you.
~PangQuan
"Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching
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