Aikido vs Bagua Zhang

[hung-le]

because it might make you look like you knew what you were talking about? search me. looks like you need credibility.

Credibility from who? You? hahaha.....again spoken like someone who exsist in the bull****to world....lol

This is the Internet dik brain.... I don't come here to seek your approval.....lol...If anything I come here to F#%k with sad sack Bitzches like you ....who need to get gratification through interaction on on a news group like this....lol

I told you i didn't need any defence: nobody was attacking me. and i didnt start on you, i asked you some qestions... er, which you still haven't answered, despite my having answered yours.

I guess your ignoramus comments clouded the issue I've done forgot what the stupid question was....as if I couldn't answer the question (which you know I could if it ammused me....yet it doesn't ...because you have the notion that...all of a sudden that's cast doubht about who I am....again more bull****to internet word game mentality.......So A typical ....

i didnt say you were a troll, and i didnt mention bs until you'd attacked me ad hominem several times.

hmmmmm didn't you post this....

You sound like an idiot (now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are an idiot, but I think the burden of proof is falling on you...)

Do you practise your atemi on a makiwara, a heavy bag or (shock!) live opponent's with padding who are trying to hit you (in order of usefulness)? If you do, perhaps you can tell me the last time you 'stunned' somebody with a good clear shot to the face? And you would go into iriminage from a groin kick?

Sounds like a slam to me......and proof? what more proof do you want I stated the many places I workout at and whom my teachers are.... what do you want? A vid of me getting beat down? lol.....

you appear to be quite hysterical. try sucking on a tittie (if your mum will let you).

[/QUOTE]

lol... .............. when you have to resort to comment like "*****" and the above.....lol.... ......I'm done enjoying myself.. time for my weekend....

[SaintSage]

"Ignoramus" is a noun. You used it as an adjective.

[Black Jack II]

Most aikidoka love the koolaid....it tastes good and goes down smooth.

Is there good aikido, I guess on some planet filled with Brianna Bank clones and free Viagra there may be, but to say its a fighting art for practical SD purposes, whose training prepares one in a realistic manner, well.............I guess if a senile Japenese guy made people believe so and Steven Segal made it look good in the movies than it must be so.

[Mr Punch]

You sound like an idiot (now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are an idiot, but I think the burden of proof is falling on you...).

Harsh, but fair I feel. I didn't say you were an idiot, I gave you plenty of chance to not look like one, but unfortunately, everything you say is making you look more and more stoopid.

You say you've forgotten my questions: let me help with a little recap.

1) Do you practise your atemi on a makiwara, a heavy bag or (shock!) live opponent's with padding who are trying to hit you (in order of usefulness)? (You should be able to answer this without hysterics, it's really simple and not insulting in any way)

2) ...perhaps you can tell me the last time you 'stunned' somebody with a good clear shot to the face? (Let me rephrase this for the martially challenged/punch drunk

a) Have you ever stunned anybody by hitting them in the face?
b) What happened? Was it like a TKO where they are staggering around like a zombie? Please describe it and what happened next (ie what tech you did next, did you run away if it was in the street etc...?)
c) If you do this regularly (that was - stunning people by hitting them in the face making them compliant in some way) how often, who, and do you use protective gear?

3) And you would go into iriminage from a groin kick?

...

4) What has happened when you've kicked someone in the nuts? Simple question. No Bullshido word games (whatever they may be - I have about 11 posts on Bullshido).

5) Have you ever kicked someone full on in the nuts?
No Bullshido word games: it's a yes/no answer.

6) Which part of this did you disagree with? I'm open to discussion. (The 'this' can be found in the previously quoted post).

Cheers!

[Mr Punch]

Are this,
this,
this, and
this your dojo?

I'm gonna be original here and call them clips 1, 2, 3 and 4, because I have a few questions.

About vid 1:

1) This guy is an eleven-year trainer going for sandan. Would you say this is typical of eleven years and sandan for your school?

2) He said on another site he was tired from two hours of hardcore practice beforehand. Would that have been/included randori?

About vids 1 and 2:

3) Does the randori come before this kind of stuff or after?

About vid 3:

4) Is this typical of the randori you practise?

About vid 4:

5) I know you didn't name this (did you? You're not 'Bash' are you, who posted those vids?) but does Nikura Sensei teach this as judo, or as aikido, or as aikijujutsu or what?

6) Was he taught that by Ueshiba?

7) Do you do that in randori (by which I mean with someone else trying to submit you, not the definition of randori seen in clip 3)?

8) Do you ever do that against other schools, jujutsu or whatever, friendly seminars or comps or whatever?

About all the vids:

9) I didn't see any blood or puke. Do you do that after class or is it a warm-up?


OK, OK, so before you go apoplectic - the last one was a gag!

[WinterPalm]

I think we have already that what you consider effective training and what I consider effective training are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I think you need to edit that one for grammer or missing words or something. Also I do not think the divide is that big...I think some of the stuff you've spoken of is realistic and reasonable...not all of it is purely silly nonsense.

[Mr Punch]

"Ignoramus" is a noun. You used it as an adjective.

Technically, as English is primarily a syntactic language rather than a strictly grammatical one, you can use any noun as an adjective by placing it in front of another noun.

E.g. shoe shop

It is sometimes a little clumsy, and sometimes simply very unnatural. I think in this case his use was OK, and I think that's the least of his worries, grammatically and everything else!

[Mr Punch]

I think you need to edit that one for grammer or missing words or something.

What is this, grammar nazi day or something?!

I think we have already that what you consider effective training and what I consider effective training are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Taking 'have' to mean 'comprehend', 'agree on' or 'hold true' that is a perfectly reasonable sentence, though an 'it' after the have would be better.

Now can we get back to the bullsh!t aikido please!

[Knifefighter]

I think you need to edit that one for grammer or missing words or something. Also I do not think the divide is that big...I think some of the stuff you've spoken of is realistic and reasonable...not all of it is purely silly nonsense.

You are correct regarding the missing word... the missing word of the day is ESTABLISHED. As in we have already ESTABLISHED that I think everything you do is pure, silly nonsense.

"Ignoramus" is a noun. You used it as an adjective.

Do not challenge Mr. Punch on English usage, as we have already ESTABLISHED that he is an English teacher.

[Knifefighter]

About vid 4:
5) I know you didn't name this (did you? You're not 'Bash' are you, who posted those vids?) but does Nikura Sensei teach this as judo, or as aikido, or as aikijujutsu or what?

Vid 4 is extremely god-awful ground work.

LOL @ anybody actually tapping from that choke on that half-assed guard pass, passing under the leg way up by the ankle, flipping over to the foot lock from underneath a mounted choke , putting on a foot lock way up on the calf, and the world's loosest knee bars & arm bars.

Techs done by someone who is proficient on the ground against a non resisting partner will be crisp, tight, and technically sound... there was nothing like that on that particular clip.

Whoever is teaching those guys groundwork at that school should not be doing so.

[rogue]

A lot of excellent things in Aikido, but real world application isn't one of them. I used to be in awe of Akikdoka until I trained with some and realized that it was easy to screw up their technique. The guys I trained with had a lot of trouble with jabs, various kicks to their legs and something as simple as stepping on their foot took them out of their game.

The reason I was training with a couple of Aikido black belts is that they realized it was flawed as a self defense art and were looking for things to fix their problem. I believe they eventually settled into a FMA school.

[Mr Punch]

Vid 4 is extremely god-awful ground work.

That was my conclusion but I wasn't going to say anything about it until we'd heard from the frothing guy.

That kind of randori and grading were the reasons I quit regular aikido. Sure they have their place, but past ikkyu/shodan they should be abandoned IMO.

[Knifefighter]

That was my conclusion but I wasn't going to say anything about it until we'd heard from the frothing guy.

That kind of randori and grading were the reasons I quit regular aikido. Sure they have their place, but past ikkyu/shodan they should be abandoned IMO.

That's not the supposed badass, full-on "kick em in the nuts police" place is it?

[Mr Punch]

It seems to be the same sensei (Nikura, HL said, right? May be some more Nikuras out there but it isn't such a common name and the description given fits). Maybe he was having a quiet day.

[Sifu Darkfist]

O- Sensei absolutley spent a great deal of time in the southern part of china some in fukien and also guanzhou.
The story is that he trained Chinna as well as tai ji
However at this time bagua was a closed art reservered for bodyguards or extremely reliable Chinese individuals as well as family training.

The resemblence to bagua is easily explained, all chinese martial arts come from the same mother to quote my Grand master. Tai JI and Bagua have similar movements in many areas.

THe biggest difference between bagua and Aikido is that bagua is and can be very aggressive and offensive were is true Aikido is defensive to the core. The epitome of the gentlemens self defense. I for one (from experience) think it is an admirable art. Do i like it as much as in your face baji? of course not
I do not have a defensive bone in my body.
I believe in destroy the target before it proliferates.

of course i am sure no one else will agree so it really does not matter.