Snake Kung Fu

[furiousman]

Does anyone have any information on the snake fist style?

I know there is tapes available on ESPY on the Chen family style snake fist

[RENEGADE_MONK]

What exactly do you want to know, if its taped instruction you could also try Panther products...or Asian World of Martial Arts

[furiousman]

I would like to find instruction in the art. Do you have any knowledge on the subject. Thanks

[RENEGADE_MONK]

What I do know is that the Snake fist is not a complete system by itself, It is incorporated with other sytems such as Hung Gar, Hung Fut, Hsing-I" 12 Animals ", Jow Ga, and other systems that are based on animal movements.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

You could go to Hong Kong and look for a good master in "Say Ying Diu Sau Mun". They specialize in snake style, and one of their masters had an excellent reputation.

I've never heard of anybody else doing snake style though.

[Ronin9844]

Hey, everyone.
I'm kind of new to Kung Fu (I've only been doing Wah Lum for one semester), so I don't really know too much about it.

I was wondering, is Snake style Kung Fu an actual style or system by itself? Or is it more like a part of a larger system, like Five Animals Kung Fu. Do people actually teach Snake style only? Because I just got DOA3 for the xbox and one of the characters does something called "She Quan". I was curious as to wehether such a style actually existed, or if it was just something made up for the game.

Thanks.

[ZhouJiaQuan]

I think it is both. Im not positive but i think there is a snake system, just snake by itself. although its kinda rare.
I know snake is part of other styles, but i do think it can be a system by itself, its rare though.

Peace,
Wally

[Colin]

There's a guy in Oxford,uk. that teaches snake style.
His name is R.Durrante I believe?????
I think he's on this forum sometimes!

I saw him perform a snake form a few years ago,at a competition, and it was very interesting to watch.
Lots of smooth flowing techniques, with a lot of floor work. Very agile!

cheers
Colin............

[jon]

snake=system
I have never been able to comprehend the idea of a total system made up of snake kung fu.
The animal by its very nature is a one hit kill striker who only attacks vital areas. By creating a system on such an ideal you would HUGELY limit the fighting potensial by forcing it into a very tight mindset.
I know there are some snake systems but i fail to see how the could be anything other than a wushu conglomeration of differing styles all done to look like a snake.
In Shaolin itself i could see being a snake specialist as viable becouse you would already be trained in Lohan and other systems.
I just dont think it suits the mindset of the animal to have a total combat system. How would it do high level chin na with no grip? how would it deal with a situation that didnt require lethal force.
You would HAVE to change the system, at that point you would no longer have the snake mind and you wouldnt really being doing snake.
I just dont get it

Leave snake as a subset of a fuller system, i think thats where it belongs.

[Shaolin Master]

Jon that is a very opinionated statement.

Your comprehension arises due to your "experiences" and understandings. Yet you have never experienced true snake methods which involve much more than what your limited knowledge provides.

No system is completely one thing or another (imagine mantis does not "solely" mimic praying mantis etc..).

Mimic styles are a PRC-New-Wushu evolvement. However traditional styles be them animal or other have a little more to them than a single concept and basic mimicking.

PS snakes have bodies, tongue, mouth etc.....so if you get locked and bitten by a python you may revisit your "how can they grip statement" and in regard to your lethal force statement well how does bagua do it (the premise is the same).

Anyways, keep training and as you develop you may evolve your knowlegde base. Of course growing with your attitude and understanding as you progress.

Regards to both William and Joseph.

[jon]

It was just my opinion, i have only personaly seen a few so called snake systems and they all wreaked of being fake.
I never once tried to state i was right...

"I have never been able to comprehend the idea of a total system made up of snake kung fu."
* This does not imply anything other than i dont see how it could be done. Thankyou for implying im ignorent for not understanding something you clearly do.

"Your comprehension arises due to your "experiences" and understandings. Yet you have never experienced true snake methods which involve much more than what your limited knowledge provides."
* Thanks for pointing out the obvious, I never tried to imply i was talking from anything other than my experience. Im deeply sorry if mine dont match yours. You also have no idea as to what ive seen or experienced, dont try to imply that you do!
Also thanks for the assuming insult. For a start my 'limited knowledge' exactly how would you define limited? Are we all not limited in our knowledge? Perhaps that was my reason for posting. Again you also have no idea what i may or may not have seen.

"Anyways, keep training and as you develop you may evolve your knowlegde base."
* Well thats usualy the general point of training, thanks ever so much for that pearl of wisdom.

"Of course growing with your attitude and understanding as you progress. "
* Here is a tip, progress yours...
You dont know me yet you imply that you know my background, I dont care if you do live in Sydney and you do know pleanty of information. The fact remains your rude and abrasive, I only commented on my experience with a particular style of martial art. You see fit to then judge me and imply that im somehow incompleate. Fine but i dont take lessons from people i dont respect.

"Regards to both William and Joseph."
* Thank you kindly, though i would be VERY interested in just how you know them both to call them by first name?
Do i call your sifu by first name?

I forget sometimes that its basicaly illegal to post on the southern forum unless your instructor. I mean god forbid anyone should come here with personal opinions or experience. The whole place could desend into bedlam!
Did i ever state as fact snake was not a compleate system? NO
I stated clearly i didnt understand how it could be done...

[Crimson Phoenix]

Snake style definitely exists as a system...as several indeed, I read recently here that Liang Shou Yu's senior student just learnt to their surprise that Liang was the inheritor of a very secretive Emei style of Snake fist...however, I know some other Snake systems exist as well out there (I think I remember one called "White Boa"), and they are definitely not a subset of larger systems...

[jon]

Rather than have a silly argument maybe we can turn this into a constructive debate.
This is as stated only my opinion and i would be interested in what others think as ive personaly given this much consideration and argued this point before with friends.

For a start my opinion on what i view as a total combat 'system'.
All ranges should be covered, both single and multiple opponents, it should be addaptable to be applied in any situation. It should also have techniques for the whole body as a weapon including all limbs. It should be useable from day one of training right the way though. There should be no assumed knowledge needed, it should be a system for a beguiner or an expert.

Secondly i would also like to state i know there ARE full snake systems around, i can also respect my Hung Ga snake proberly came from a fuller snake system. My problem lies in how its used and the addaptation of the animals spirit.

For me i think of using animal kung fu as in using the animals essence. For me the snake represents a quiet lurker who does not seek combat but if forced prefers to strike when the opponent is most vulnerable and end it with a single strike. When they eat there prey they intagle it with there bodys before either swallowing it or poisoning it. They dont toy with food and they dont fight for land rights or many of the other reasons many other animals do.
Back to snake kung fu now.
Here are my problems with the idea of a snake system as a full combat system.

The snake does not have limbs it uses its mouth and occasionaly its body to insnare.
* From this i fail to see how the full range of human limb movement could be covered.

The snake when it strikes always strikes with its fangs, this is a TINY weapon and when using snake the traditional striker is the fingertips.
* How can you teach a new student to only strike with there fingertips?

The snake also only strikes with intent to kill, it does not play fight and even fights amounst snakes over mates are rare.
* How do you use the system when some drunk guy in a pub takes a disorderly swing at you becouse he doesnt like the way you dress?

My main problems revolve around how low level students would use the art and how it would deal with many situtations without using lethal force.
I think to make a system out of it you would have to be pretty lenient with the whole snake connection. You would need to addapt the art to use fists or palms as well, how about elbows and knees? Snakes dont really have joints, they just have a great long spine.
Its just my opinion but i think a whole system based on snake would be one of two things.
Either a mix of other styles with a general preference for snake and a similarity to the animals movement.
Or very deadly and almost unuseable for many years untill a lot of internal force was developed and the fingers where well conditioned.
This is all just my opinion and if anyone else wants to rebut my views then please feel free. Just do me a favor and make it constructive dont just try to tell me how im wrong or dont understand. Give me some hard examples and arguements and ill be most happy to change my views.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Snake kung fu tries to express the stickness and flexibility that is not usually found in the so called "harder styles" of southern kung fu which in clude Clf, hung gar, shaolin etc. it's interesting that these styles have an element of snake which is little more than the shape of one's hands.

Another name for snake kung fu is wing chun.

[ZhouJiaQuan]

Hi jon, you bring up some good points, as i dont know any snake i cant really refute your arguments.

I will say however that there are complete animal systems such as tiger, crane, mantis,etc.... In these systems they are not limited only to tiger claws and mantis hooks, and crane beaks. And never in the animla kingdom will you see a tiger grapple or do chin na on prey So i would think a complete snake system would have a concentration of snake strikes but also have kicks(very few i would guess, maybe more sweeps???) but still use fists and plams and what not. I think it would all end up in the way they were used.
Just my thoughts, i really dont know anything about snake and just a lil bout kung fu.

Ego, I thought wing chun was based off the both sanke and crane?

peace,
Wally