Truth and lies regarding the so-called "Lineage Holder of LHBF"

[fukien guy]

Recently there has been an ongoing disscussion on the emptyflower
forum regarding Choi Wai Lun and the claims that he has made about
himself, others, and the liuhebafa style in general.

http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/y...861712;start=0

Here is a summary of the postings to date:

Choi Wai Lun claims to be the lineage holder and custodian of the
lhbf system appointed by Chan Yik Yan. He displays a document to
prove this fact that has been mistranslated into English...
-the fact is his own classmates have come forth as witnesses to say
that he paid money to have that written and presented to him!
-the fact is the certificate in mention is actually a simple scroll
of recognition that others posses as well with their names!

Choi Wai Lun claims to have been accepted as a disciple of Chan in
1963 and begun to teach liuhebafa in 1969...
-the fact is Chan was in Singapore until 1965 and didnt open up his
door to new disciples until 1969!
-the fact is Choi did teach in 1969 but it was only Hsing Yi and not
liuhebafa as he had claimed. His own student from the time has
confirmed this fact!
-the fact is that Choi's own classmates who were there have stated
that his actual time with Chan Yik Yan was less than 2 years!

Choi Wai Lun claims to have been educated in Tai Chi, Ba Gua, and
Hsing Yi by Chan Yik Yan...
-the fact is his bagua has proven to be from a different source as
Chan taught the "jiang style" whereas Choi teaches the "swimming
dragon style"!
-the fact is it was stated that Chan had never taught Tai Chi to
anyone!

For the past decade a dedicated disciple of Choi Wai Lun has been
promoting him as the "lineage holder" and "sole heir" to Chan Yik
Yan and the Liuhebafa System.
HE HAS BEEN SLANDERING OTHERS WHOM HE HAS NEVER MET IN PERSON, NOR
TALKED TO, NOR SEEN PERFORM!
And has insulted virtually every disciple of Chan Yik Yan and
currently active teacher of liuhebafa today!

It was also brought up that Choi Wai Lun had never stated anything about himself or his past, and that it was simply his students who were making these claims. If this is so then he was in complete ignorance of his own website, acticles which his students and others published, his published book on 12 Animals, and videos, all stating this information in print! Seems like alot gets by the "Grandmaster of LHBF"!

It is of course not for me to say anything as I too have never met
any other practitioner of lhbf excluding my own teacher. But I find
there to be a shadow cast by Choi Wai Lun that discluded any other
student of Chan Yik Yan as being authentic. Finally after years of
reign as the self proclaimed "lineage holder of liuhebafa", the
classmates of Choi Wai Lun who were there at the time have spoken
their voice through their students on the forum. Let the truth be
known!

http://lineageholder.tripod.com/

BB

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Periodically, people show-up to discredit this master ot that master.. it's the nature of the game.. I've trained with Master Choi, and regardless of lineage, he has the goods.. by that, i mean he can back-up his lessons with usable applications.. and, from my perspective, applications that work beat lineages that don't.. cripe, we all know of "Masters" with ancient verifiable lineages but that produce no fighters, and rarely are seen training "real" applications.. so, do you pay a paper Tiger.. or, do you pay for lessons that work..

Being acquainted with Master Choi, i sense no intention to deceive.. but, i've been wrong before, so.. take it for what it's worth..

Be well..

[fukien guy]

There is no dis-credit and no mention of his skill what so ever!!!

There is only a mention regarding falsified claims made by Choi Wai Lun, and nothing more!

If he is so skillful then he could have rode to the top on talent instead of claiming to be the "lineage holder" of a system! If anyone else had made this claim without proof then the subject would be raised, and this is no different!

[cjurakpt]

Periodically, people show-up to discredit this master ot that master.. it's the nature of the game.. I've trained with Master Choi, and regardless of lineage, he has the goods.. by that, i mean he can back-up his lessons with usable applications.. and, from my perspective, applications that work beat lineages that don't..

but c'mon Bob - what if you are delusional?

[SevenStar]

lineage, schmineage. choi's skill level far outweighs any real or fake lineage claims. Why do people get so wrapped up in lineage?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Geeeze, cjurakpt, do you everybody i know? I keep hearing the same question over and over... "are you delusional? hmmm.. makes me wonder at times, am i?... nah, it just seems that way to the really crazy people...

Be well...

[cjurakpt]

LOL - parry / riposte...

BTW, what is the point of this thread? is this guy just looking for some self-actualization? I mean, even if 100 people wrote in agreeing with him, does he think it's going to have any impact on WLC?

and it IS a discredit - you are seeking to discredit his claims, which, by extension, makes his teachings suspect

you are also trying to break his rice bowl...

not that anyone really cares all that much anyway...

[entrust]

your A goof! how many masters may embelish their credentials how many? how about since the begining of time is it possable that wai lun choi was better than the master he learned from there are many great masters from chicago area master guo master zhang master wai lun chin and master wai lun choi how do you judge A master I b ye there students so challange his studente othrerwise put up or shut up I am not his student but reconize some one who needs a life
i

[B-Rad]

Who are you guys and how are you related to all this? While exposing lies is all fine and dandy, I don't think people take too kindly to random guys bringing over trouble from other forums, especially if you don't take part in the community here. No one knows who you are, or what you have to do with any of this. There's been a number of rather small problems turned into big ones due to the flames being fanned by outsiders, so I imagine most people are going to be a bit cautious with stuff brought over by newbies off another forum.

[mawali]

a. In America, people are easily fooled by CMA/IMA lineage so when you engage Americans you must talk lineage if you want students.

b. Wan Lun Choi proved that he was better because he entered and won tournament(s). That is valid because most CMA/IMA do not test or are afraid to test what they know. So in that scenario, Wan Lun Choi walked the talk!

c. Most Americans do not read chinese so the scroll could have called his mother a beauty queen and no one would know the difference.

d. In CMA/IMA, confidence goes a long way so if you have it and you can prove it, then you have a lineage because you kicked butt! Truth is truth and a lie is a lie!

[Walter Joyce]

Who are you guys and how are you related to all this? While exposing lies is all fine and dandy, I don't think people take too kindly to random guys bringing over trouble from other forums, especially if you don't take part in the community here. No one knows who you are, or what you have to do with any of this. There's been a number of rather small problems turned into big ones due to the flames being fanned by outsiders, so I imagine most people are going to be a bit cautious with stuff brought over by newbies off another forum.

We have been having similar problems at EF. Our moderator ending up banning the person trolling.

[Mas Judt]

I've met a lot of so-called masters in my day, Wai Lun Choi put all of them to shame. His skill is astounding - in free-fighting not 'physics tricks'. My Shuai Chiao teacher ALWAYS gave him the highest respects and a pecial seat because he loved how WLC lived his art and backed it up.

There is considerable debate on the translation of the scroll, and frankly having known Choi, he would say what he thought right to somebodies face. Funny how know he is an old man and retired the mice start squeeling.

Go accomplish what he accomplished, then talk to me. His proof is certainly in the pudding, not in whining like a bunch of old crows.

[B-Rad]

Just curious, but since Wai Lun Choi's retired, who are his successors?

[Mas Judt]

You know, I'll ask that question.

One of his top students, Michael Clanton is still keeping a bunch of his crew together.

[Water Dragon]

Man oh man, people really need to realize the stupidity of this issue. I had a chance to work with Dr. Tao a few times. I was never a student, but I by the time I left, he recognized me when I showed up to a seminar, and appeared happy to see me. I also have seen Wai Lun Choi a few times, but never had a chance to work with him.

Both of those men had solid, authentic, powerful Liu He Ba Fa. Both of them expressed the art in a very different way. How can anyone say say there is only one way in an internal martial art? That totally misses the point. Hell, look at the myriad styles within boxing, and BJJ as an example. This is a good reason the internals are all but dead. People need to stop focusing on what they 'think' is authentic and focus on finding the guys that have something to show and learning that.