shaolin monk in chicago? question for gene

[oasis]

just curious about what looks like a newcomer to the area: Shi Yan Ju

http://chicagoshaolintemple.org/home

any info about him would be appreciated. thanks

[Immortal_Dragon]

Havent heard of him personally. There is a name same as his refrenced at Shi Guolin's school here. Read under the September 2006 entry...but from what I understand monks can have the same name and be two different people.

[LFJ]

he's under shi yongxin. you should know what that means.

he's likely a wushu performer and knows nothing about buddhism, chan nor otherwise (or traditional gongfu), but likely has a back-up of a pureland monk with him to cover that spiritual image. so it makes a whole martial-buddhist tradition.

thats the way shi yongxin's work is done. take one apple (wushu guy) and one pear (pureland monk) and pass it off as one orange (traditional gongfu & chan buddhism).

[LFJ]

it says he's one of yongxin's top ten disciples. great! and also:

"Master Shi Yan Ju is a master of QiGong, Internal QiGong, Iron Shirt, Iron Crotch, 72 QinNa, and 108 Hand Strikes. He has traveled with the China Shaolin Temple Abbot, Shi Yong Xin, to visit over 20 countries to spread the name of Shaolin Kung fu."

spread the name! thats all. spread the name and rake in the dough.

my advice: go there and kick him in the crotch to see if he's legit.

[Shaolindynasty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-tfKCnQoRA

I've seen the young monk who is the main teacher perform twice both times nothing martial but allot of acrobatics.

BTW, oasis haven't seen you around lately, what happened?

[LFJ]

... as one should have expected. lol

[Royal Dragon]

I've seen the young monk who is the main teacher perform twice both times nothing martial but allot of acrobatics.

Reply]
From that clip, looks ike standard Shaolin gymnastics. There really was not much there that my daughter does not do as play everytime she finds a little free space to move.

However, Shaolin has allways put the *Flash* first in demos and in recruitment efforts. Because of that, we really do not know what this guy is made of untill we see his students compete.

[GeneChing]

Check out our latest issue, the Nov/Dec 007 Shaolin Special. The article The Gold Mountain Monks: 38 Shaolin Immigrants to the San Francisco Bay Area By Chen Xinghua and Gigi Oh profiles the 38 monks in our area alone. This is a mix of people, some authorized by Yongxin, some not, some wushu, some traditional, one strictly wenseng - there's no pattern. I can't even keep track of them all. I only keep track of the ones in my face and the ones I've training with myself. If this is my own 'hood, there's no way I can keep track of what's happening in Chicago. Each one is different and if you read it very closely, it's very telling about the state of recent Shaolin immigrants. Never make snap judgments about what is real or fake when it comes to modern Shaolin because you'll often wind up looking like a fool. One myth I'd like to dispel is that the Shaolin immigrants are making a ton of money. A few of them are doing ok, but most of them are struggling just like any other school owner. It's not like saying your a Shaolin monk lets you sit back on your laurel/lotus leaves and coast. Especially in our area, many of the monks are living pretty humbly. This article touches on the living standards of some of our Gold Mountain monks. It's part two of this article.

[Shaolindynasty]

Shaolin has allways put the *Flash* first in demos and in recruitment efforts. Because of that, we really do not know what this guy is made of untill we see his students compete.

Except one of the "performances" I saw was while visiting his school. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he can't do anything martial. he just hasn't shown anything martial yet.

[Royal Dragon]

he just hasn't shown anything martial yet.

Reply]
That was my point.

[LFJ]

my question about all these new guys under yongxin (if they are traditional) is where did they learn their gongfu? who is their teacher? obviously not one of the old traditional monks. they are yongxin's people and he couldnt have taught them. all i've ever seen from them is modern wushu- and maybe a couple traditional forms.

basically, as i've seen, for yongxin to pass off the image of a buddhist and martial arts tradition he hires wushu performers who dont know buddhism and pureland monks who dont know martial arts. its not traditional gongfu or chan, but who knows? it still looks like martial arts and buddhism together.

a perfect example is that old temple in germany and all the guys there. one guy even said he's interested in the buddha's life and all that, but for now he wants to focus on wushu and maybe later learn about buddhism (and he's a buddhist monk?). while another monk there was the "scriptual teacher". and he had the incense burns likely from his previous pureland ordination.

[Immortal_Dragon]

Except one of the "performances" I saw was while visiting his school. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he can't do anything martial. he just hasn't shown anything martial yet.

Shaolin Wushu has always been "flashy" for performances. That's just the way it is in the public forum. After all not everyone who attends these peformances are die hard martial artists. Some just want to experience the culture or see what they have always read about. For others, like you and me, who practice martial arts we expect to see more. However, the pitfall most people fall in is they think these monks do not know actual martial art fighting skills. These monks are very skilled in Chin na, form applications, etc. If you doubt it go see one in person.

my question about all these new guys under yongxin (if they are traditional) is where did they learn their gongfu? who is their teacher? obviously not one of the old traditional monks. they are yongxin's people and he couldnt have taught them. all i've ever seen from them is modern wushu- and maybe a couple traditional forms.

basically, as i've seen, for yongxin to pass off the image of a buddhist and martial arts tradition he hires wushu performers who dont know buddhism and pureland monks who dont know martial arts. its not traditional gongfu or chan, but who knows? it still looks like martial arts and buddhism together.

a perfect example is that old temple in germany and all the guys there. one guy even said he's interested in the buddha's life and all that, but for now he wants to focus on wushu and maybe later learn about buddhism (and he's a buddhist monk?). while another monk there was the "scriptual teacher". and he had the incense burns likely from his previous pureland ordination.

LFJ, you been around the forums long enough to know the answers to these questions. There is so much information floating around out there about modern shaolin. The way it is now basically the Shaolin Temple is more of a martial arts institution and not so much a "monastary". Most of the "monks" that go to Shaolin these days are doing so for the martial arts. Buddhism is of course taught there because Shaolin has always been symbolic with Buddhism. A lot of the monks are quite young and at that early in life who is really concerned with religion? It's usually not until you beome older does religion really comes to mind for some. Again, don't fall into the "it's all wushu" pit. I can't stress this enough, the only downfall of Shaolin will be the behavior of some of its "masters".

[GeneChing]

...it's been a work in progress since its inception. If you accept the basic tenet that all things are impermanent, this makes a lot of sense. I'd agree that the first crop of monks that emerged under Yongxin's abbacy were mostly wushu monks or Buddhist implants. But Yongxin has moved on from that. He's cultivated more traditional practitioners within his cadre recently. Perhaps they too have become more accepting of him since they realize they can't get around him. I've seen some of the newer people that Yongxin is sending forth, and while many of the performing monks are still flashy wushu stars, several have been quite traditional.

Just when you think you get Shaolin pinned down, it gets away from you.

[LFJ]

LFJ, you been around the forums long enough to know the answers to these questions. There is so much information floating around out there about modern shaolin.

the question was if yongxin's people are doing traditional gongfu, then where is that coming from? who teaches them? i dont see that answer around here.

The way it is now basically the Shaolin Temple is more of a martial arts institution and not so much a "monastary".

i would beg to differ. there are older traditional masters living in the temple now, master shi deyang is an example. it is still very much a monastery. yongxin and those wushu people have just been using it. but it is still very much a monastery to those monks who continue the real tradition. its just quiet right now.

also, as shi deyang said each monk must learn buddhism. they can choose to learn gongfu or not. but if they do gongfu they must learn buddhism first and then they can train at the same time as studying. but then we had yongxin's wushu guy in germany talking about he only wants to do wushu and maybe learn about buddhism later. its obviously fake and has nothing to do with the real shaolin temple and tradition.

thats my point. the real tradition is there living in the temple underneath it all. what we see with the wushu guys and pureland monks is not shaolin's tradition. but every lotus flower that blossoms must come up through the muddy water. one day again, the real tradition will emerge. but for now, its quiet. not dormant or dead. just quiet.

Again, don't fall into the "it's all wushu" pit. I can't stress this enough, the only downfall of Shaolin will be the behavior of some of its "masters".

what i'm saying is all i've seen from yongxin's people is modern wushu. and the question is if some of them are doing traditional, then where is it coming from? the traditional masters who are knowledgeable in gongfu and chan dont hang with yongxin. thats why he hired the wushu guys and the pureland monks in the first place. he had no one to back up the image of either gongfu or buddhism.

He's cultivated more traditional practitioners within his cadre recently.

traditional gongfu practitioners? if thats the case, then my question stands. how does he do that? who is teaching them? i've seen the old overweight monks doing what appears to be traditional. but its highly marked. it seems like they've taken their modern versions of xiaohongquan the wushu guys were doing and tried to make it look "ancient" by doing it very "internally". it fools a lot of people.

i've never seen the old pre-yongxin traditional monks do the forms that way. so, no wonder one would ask where its coming from. my assumption is "crafted for the image". just like the wushu/pureland thing was crafted for the gongfu/buddhism image. now he just wants the martial arts to seem more "ancient", now that the modern wushu has caught your eye, and others know what it is.

its not too difficult to pin the tail on this donkey.

[GeneChing]

...and by that I mean they are both part and parcel of Shaolin Temple. Deyang, along with many other traditional Shaolin monks, have yet to leave the temple in protest of Yongxin. Yongxin can and will tap these inner temple monks and their students to perform at Shaolin events. I've seen Deyang himself performing at a Shaolin Demo that Yongxin was presiding over. It's not hard for the abbot to take one of Deyang's students and adopt him as a disciple. I don't know that this has happened for sure yet, but Deyang has several thousand students at his Dengfeng school and Deyang is not the only traditional monk still residing at Shaolin. There are others. Yongxin isn't stupid. A stupid person could never become abbot of Shaolin Temple. A stupid person might become president of the United States, but it takes extreme political savvy to take abbacy at Shaolin under communist rule. Yongxin hears the criticisms leveled against him and he makes adjustments.