Inside trips

[Ben Gash]

I was watching a double leg instructional DVD today and it got me thinking about something Ross said on here last week. He said something along the lines of "Kung Fu teaches a lot of inside trips, which in these days of BJJ might not be so smart".
This got me thinking about several things. Is it a problem to teach inside trips, or is it a problem to teach inside trips and not teach guard passes? Sometimes you've got to take what's available to you, and an inside trip will offer you the best solution to your immediate situation. Ending up on top but in guard is preferable to coming out second best in the standup, or being taken down yourself and ending up on the bottom.
Alternatively, is it OK to teach inside trips as long as you use them in the correct context and highlight the potential pitfalls? You know, don't do them from certain clinch positions where it's easy for him to pull guard, try not to go down with them, watch out for his legs etc.
Perhaps most importantly, is it REALLY that much of a problem? If he's good enough at BJJ for it to be a problem he's probably not going to let you inside trip anyway, unless you've managed to really rock him with punches, in which case he's probably going to be just as distracted from gaining guard.
My final thought is "is inside tripping a misunderstood skill, and is the nature of Kung Fu in the modern world partly to blame?" Whenever I work inside trips I either drive them away from me with my arms or have them in a controlling hold. The latter requires a fair degree of skill and sensitivity to practice safely, and the former requires a partner who can fall or mats. The nature of kung fu schools, and the fact that they often don't thrive, means that most training is usually done on hard floors. This then encourages people to control their partner's fall which then draws them to close and into the guard, which then makes thye technique ineffective.

[Knifefighter]

Ending up on top but in guard is preferable to coming out second best in the standup, or being taken down yourself and ending up on the bottom.

More often than not you will end up in 1/2 guard if you get an inside trip. The key from there is to prevent the full guard and pass the 1/2 guard.

If he's good enough at BJJ for it to be a problem he's probably not going to let you inside trip anyway, unless you've managed to really rock him with punches, in which case he's probably going to be just as distracted from gaining guard.

After a year or so of BJJ, you don't get "distracted" from working for guard, it becomes an instinctive reaction anytime you are put on your back.

Whenever I work inside trips I either drive them away from me with my arms or have them in a controlling hold.

The majority of people trained in BJJ will pull you down into their guard (or at least 1/2 guard) if you manage to get the trip, no matter what your position.

[SifuAbel]

Could you all be more specific about which particular instance you are using the trip?

I gather you are talking about the extremely basic over hand leg catch and step forward with a push.

The variations are many, so a distinction is in order.

[bodhitree]

ouchi gari is common to many martial arts

kouchi is also seen a lot.



(major inner reap, minor inner reap)

[lkfmdc]

I do a lower inner hooking takedown a lot (it's on I think 3 of my DVD's!).... it is an inside trip, so it has an inherent danger... the difference is that I do it with an under hook on the same side, sink with the opposite side leg posted, and with the other hand free...... ie as I trip I post my free hand on the knee and immediately start to pass, and with the under hook, even if I end up in half guard I can start passing that

(the above may not make any sense at all, sorry)

[Becca]

Naw, that makes sence. I don't really know any practical uses in Kung fu for inside trips. Could be my teacher doesn't like them and so doesn't teach them. Could also be I haven't gone far enought into the system to see them. But I have been warned many times by my wrestling coach to always post to protect my position and sink a hook if I'm going to be working "inside". Sinking hooks makes sence to me as a TCMA person, but posting don't feel natural yet. I keep wanting to hit.