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Thread: Questions about Wah Lum.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Questions about Wah Lum.

    Hello, this is my first post as a hopefully long time member of these forums, so please be gentle.

    Basically, I'm a kung fu newbie. I took some TKD as a kid, but haven't touched any sort of martial arts in over 10 years.

    Very recently I've been trying to get into kung fu in a big way (my kids plan on signing up with me too), but since I live in Denver (Colorado) I was unable to find any decent schools. While looking for JKD or Wing Chun schools I happened upon Wah Lum which is just a short drive from where I live, and also the only kung fu school I could find that is a reasonable distance away.

    I've been trying to research Wah Lum online for the last few days but none of the sites I find are of much use. I've also searched these (and other) forums and haven't found much information regarding what kind of school I can expect Wah Lum to be. Does anybody know any information about any of the instructors, or the overall quality of the school?

    I've read there is probably a contract, and the Wah Lum schools are a bit on the pricey side, but none of that is really a concern of mine. I'm trying to get into kung fu as more of a fitness vehicle than a self defense one, so I was also curious whether or not Wah Lum is the correct MA to get me to where I want to go.

    Is anybody able to give me some possible personal experiences, or better yet, pros and cons regarding Wah Lum as an art and how useful it would be for my end fitness goal?

    I know it seems kind of silly, but I'm unable to find many videos of Wah Lum in action (mainly on youtube), but I was curious as to how similar it is to Wushu regarding high intensity aerial kicks, flips, splits, all of that stuff.

    I've heard the workouts are tough, so I'm also wondering what they could comprise of (or really, what does a normal class at any comparable style of kung fu school generally consist of?)

    As I mentioned earlier, my 8 year old son, and 13 year old daughter are planning on signing up with me, and since they're very nervous about being in a MA class I was going to take the parent/kids classes with them. I'd really love to know if anybody has taken these kind of classes, and how could I expect them to be structured? I'm sort of afraid the classes with my kids may be a lot less 'aggressive' or more watered down than some of the adult only classes.

    I've already signed up for some of the free trials, and am really excited abut getting started, I just want to make sure my money is going to be well spent. Any relevant information is greatly appreciated.

    Also, in the case that Wah Lum doesn't work out for us after the trial (I'm hoping it does, though) does anybody else know of some recent schools in the Denver/Littleton/Englewood areas? This forum was my primary source of information when I was trying to locate or cross check schools, but some of the other threads name schools that don't exist or that I can't find anymore.

    Thanks again, and sorry that my first post droned on for so long!

  2. #2
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    Aug 2007
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    Additionally..

    Most of the information I am able to find on Wah Lum as a system seems to pretty much echo opinions like the one stated here: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...5&postcount=26

    Though I'm not super concerned about it, I was just curious why that seems to be the general consensus.

    Thanks!

  3. #3

    Wl

    If you are interested in it just for a workout it would be a good fit for you.
    There will be a lot of high kicking and fancy stuff but if your not able to do that don't worry about it.
    You will do a lot of leg training, just pay attention to proper alignment of your stances or you may experience problems with your knees.
    A big organization with some nice people in it and if your not interested in going down the path for fighting it should work out well for you.

  4. #4
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    Talk to Sammygirl on Dragonslist, she's been in it for over 7 years.
    "The true meaning of a given movement in a form is not its application, but rather the unlimited potential of the mind to provide muscular and skeletal support for that movement." Gregory Fong

  5. #5
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    wl

    I agree with 18 elders. He would know as he was a sifu in wl. It is a fantastic workout. you will get in great shape. Just watch out for your supporting knee turning inward on the low stances. This tends to jack up people's knees. Most professional schools do contracts. That is why they are still there and not closed up like the other schools mentioned.

    israel

  6. #6
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    Jul 2005
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    Destin, FL
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    People who study Wah Lum seem to like it.

    Just in case youd like to check other options, there are atleast 2 other decent schools in the South Denver/DTC/Park Meadows areas. Feel free to contact me via PM if you are interested in hearing more.

  7. #7
    abica,

    I've been doing Wah Lum for about 2 years. It is definitely a major work out for your legs. The stances really need your attention. Technique is very important to protect your knees.

    As a newbie to CMA one thing you have to keep in mind - There seems to be a HUGE amount of politics - between styles and even in styles.

    From talking to people and reading some older threads Wah Lum has certainly had it's share - and with all do respect to those on the forum - some of the comments seem or at least could be tainted do to these politics.

    The most important thing is to understand what you want and to see what the attitude of the school and sifu is. I think this is far more important then the style you pick.

    By the way - you can youtube just about any style of Kung Fu. Obviously you can not compare the abilities you see there as it covers the ludicrous to the fantastic, but it will give you some idea of the movements of the styles.

    Good luck with what ever you chose.

    Oh since no one posted it. The main site for wah lum is www . wahlum . com.

  8. #8
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    Aug 2007
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    Englewood, Colorado
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    Thank you all for your replies. I came on quickly earlier but didn't have a chance to reply to everything, so I decided to wait until after our first trial day.

    I must admit, I was very impressed by the level of workout I received today. Most of the stances were natural enough, but I had some slight ankle pain from the riding horse stance - though I have a feeling this was more due to not having stretched my ankle before trying the stance.

    Regarding the school, from what I've seen so far it fits the bill for my need to the t. They have sparring, they're very flexible (I was sort of worried I'd get some crazy strict instructor who would yell at me if I needed to change a class) and down to earth people. They were also very family oriented which I loved to see.

    I was also very surprised (mostly from preconceptions I had regarding reading some posts on these and other forums - probably regarding training at the temple?) that the guy doing the one on one with me was showing me the application for every stance and form (I may have the terminology wrong here..) that we did.

    I'm not completely concerned about the politics or the fact that the forms are changed or whatever, I realise I'm not training in china and for my purpose (and assuming I'm walking into it with no prior research) I'm getting just what I wanted - a great workout with some practical (practical enough) self defense skills (mainly concerned about this for my children.)

    I went in there expecting everyone to be doing flying kicks and windmills with no sparring classes or anything, and I was pleasantly surprised.

    I haven't signed a contract yet, as I've only gotten an extremely small taste of the class, but since they have the 1 month trial I'll be going a few times a week to get a better feel for the school before I commit. I'm really hoping it's more of the same through the rest of this trial, because I was very impressed by the school and the students/teachers.

    @PlumDragon - Thanks for the offer, if I find after my trial is up that Wah Lum is not for me, I'll definitely exhaust you as a resource on those other two schools.

    @Everyone else - Thank you all for the comments, they were very insightful.

    Hopefully I'll be around here quite a bit longer!

  9. #9

    Big System

    I believe that they are few things anyone has to consider before committing to a Martial arts system.
    I studied I at two Wah Lum schools for both less than a year. I believe that the most important thing about Wah Lum that committed prosective students do not know are three things.
    The system is huge about 40 to 50 Hand forms alone.
    The system does not teach its version of the core Praying mantis material
    until the very end or nearly the end of the training.
    Most Wah Lum Sifus teach additional material such as Choy Li Fut.
    This might not seem a concern for a student if the like and believe in their Sifu.
    I truly believe however that if I student wants to really be able to use the techniques of the system, they should have I system in which they can practice all their Hand forms every week. If you have 40 to 50 Hand forms you will not be able to do this.
    I also believe that the core forms of your system i.e. any form of Bak Tang Lang Chuan, Northern Praying mantis should be learned first. These forms are Crushing step, Bung Bu, Eight Elbows, Bah Zhao, and Lan Jie Chuan, Intercepting and Deflecting Fist.
    In Tachi Tang Lang Chuan Eight Elbows and Lan Jie Chuan are taught later in the system. Eight Elbows is intermediate, while Lan Jie Chuan is advanced but bung bu is taught at the begining not at the end of the training i.e. nine years into your training.
    Lastly Wah Lum Sifus usually teach a lot of additional material such as Choy li fut so your 50 hand forms may become 60.
    In conclusion I am not saying that Wah Lum is bad but it is not for everyone and It is high matainance in regard the amount of its material.
    I would look for a system that has no more than 15 hand forms. Ask your perspective Sifus about this. If they are reasonable they should be polite and answer you.

  10. #10
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    I do see how those concerns would be very real for anybody who is really into kung fu and already has a firm grasp on the foundational stuff.

    Keeping in mind I haven't done martial arts in a decade, and when I did it was TKD, most of the simple balance building and deep breathing stuff is fundamental before I move on to anything else.

    I have intentions of using Wah Lum as a base and then moving on to Wing Chun or some JKD once my 6 month contract is up, if I choose to sign it. Right now I'm just interested in building a solid foundation that will allow me to move to any CMA fairly easily, as I have a feeling all of them will have similar stuff. Presently, I'm just going to make the most of the training I receive, and if it surpasses my expectations consistently throughout my trial and long term contract, I may renew my contract there as well.

    Right now I'm getting ready for my second brutal trial day, and I'm sort of wondering if maybe I shouldn't have scheduled them on consecutive days.

    Here's to hoping my legs hold out!
    Last edited by Abica; 08-18-2007 at 09:06 AM.

  11. #11
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    Massachusetts
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    Abica -

    I'm glad your introduction to Wah Lum has gone well. Regardless of where you wind up, it's nice to hear from someone with a good understanding of what they want to get out of their training.

    Much of the information people have already shared with you here is factually accurate, though here and there a bit of 'interpretation' has snuck in. I'd be a fool to pretend that I don't have my own opinions as well, but perhaps I can provide a bit of 'counter-spin' to a few of the comments that will give you more to think about.

    Wah Lum is indeed very rich; as a traditional system with hundreds of years of history behind it, it has benefitted from its many contributors and now comprises a large number of basic techniques, as well as hand forms, weapon forms, multi person forms, etc. In my mind, that's a clear win when interpreted as follows: Early on, every Wah Lum student studies the same basic material that gives them a strong foundation as it improves balance, flexibility and strength. Later, the breadth of the system offers them the opportunity to customize their training to focus on things that suit their interests, body style, etc. A Wah Lum student shouldn't be thinking 'oh man, how will I ever master hundreds of forms, let alone find the time to practice them all?!?', but rather, 'I really like 'x', and I'm fortunate to be a student in a style that offers many opportunities to learn more about it over years of study'. Martial arts is not a board game where you move from beginning to end and 'win' by learning all the material. In fact, I have never encountered a Wah Lum sifu - and at one time or another, I suspect I've met just about all of them who have been active during my time in the system - who enforces a particular pace or requires testing at specific intervals. In that sense, regardless of the number of forms listed in the student handbook, Wah Lum has as many - or as few - forms to learn as you want.

    Finally, to a great extent, every school in every style is strongly influenced by the skills and interests and beliefs of its instructors. While the Wah Lum system is very well laid out with regards to its curriculum, each sifu has their own unique knowledge and experience to draw on. In some cases, that might translate into material from other systems, in other cases, it might affect stylistic movements or interpretations of techniques. If you believe, as I do, that the lifeblood of a school is tied to the willingness of its students and teachers to share their knowledge and skills then again, this can't be seen as anything but a plus.

    Again, good luck to you Abica, wherever your journey may lead you, and please, pardon my novel!

    - CS

  12. #12
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    Sifu Eric is a good teacher and Wah Lum is a good style/school for getting in shape and learning the basics of traditional Chinese Kung Fu.

    Wah Lum is a hybrid style and is a little different from the standard Northern Mantis schools so if you're looking for purity (if there is such a thing) and lineage is important to you then look elsewhere.

    Sounds to me that it fits the bill based on your original post of your expectations. I'm not on here much these days and I'm no longer in the system but I generally give a fair answer to any questions and am not too biased either way so ask away.

    Tell your teacher David Scott says Ni Hao.

  13. #13
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    If exercise is what you seek, then by all means join the Wah Lum school. Along with getting a good workout you will more than likely make some good friends. There is always a nice camaraderie within the school and among the WL schools. There is a healthy atmosphere full of positive energy, and the teacher is a good guy. WL has more than enough to get you fit and to keep you busy. One month trial is pretty awesome, and if money is no issue I say go for it.
    I am still a student practicing - Wang Jie Long

    "Don`t Taze Me Bro"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Sing View Post
    Sifu Eric is a good teacher and Wah Lum is a good style/school for getting in shape and learning the basics of traditional Chinese Kung Fu.

    Wah Lum is a hybrid style and is a little different from the standard Northern Mantis schools so if you're looking for purity (if there is such a thing) and lineage is important to you then look elsewhere.

    Sounds to me that it fits the bill based on your original post of your expectations. I'm not on here much these days and I'm no longer in the system but I generally give a fair answer to any questions and am not too biased either way so ask away.

    Tell your teacher David Scott says Ni Hao.

    They should just advertise it as "MOK GAR".
    The Style Doesn't Make The Master Famous. The Master Makes The Style Famous!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    They should just advertise it as "MOK GAR".
    Why is that, you thinks it's predominately Mok Gar?

    Popular opinion says CLF but it doesn't match up with any CLF I've done elsewhere. Very southern though which is why I've been wanting to see more Lama from the NY guys. The short clip of CTS in the apartment looks very Wah Lum.

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