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Thread: Questions about Wah Lum.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    I've heard all the explanations concerning wah lum. Matter of fact, I still have the handbooks. It doesnt change the fact that Chans wah lum mantis is not wl mantis....
    So where does your insight into WL mantis come from that you can state as fact that MC's mantis is not the same? And also, can you put me in touch with that source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    BUT, I do not let them assume or hide what my school style is about, 100%.
    I was at the Temple in the early 90's and I never saw any evidence of hiding the origin of the style. This is one of those myths perpetuated by frustrated ex-students like the one about the training damaging knees. Just not true at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    but the fact is, when I learned 7 star, I learned mantis, when I learn 6 harmony, I learned mantis, when I learned wl, I didnt learn mantis.
    If you define Mantis by the forms taught then I can see your point but WL has Mantis moves and principles spread across most of what's taught. I'm really surprised it's not more evident to you after studying other more mainstream branches of Mantis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    I agree with you on this post. But, when I started wl in the early 90's it was being promoted as pure mantis, not with just my teacher but many of the wl sifu's I was around throughout the years.
    Like I said, I was there at the Temple around that time and I've always known it as a hybrid system although heavy on the Mantis for marketing purposes. I don't recall anyone claiming it to be pure Mantis. The name, the handbook, it's all there right out in the open.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    Yes, I learned alot of things while in wl, I also learned alot of bad habbits which hindered my growth within the cma. I was lucky not to have damaged my hips and knee's like some of the others, but I'm sure thats not limited to just wl...
    Everyone likes to throw these claims around yet when pressed nobody can provide evidence that it's true. I have a bad right knee but I slammed that in 2 different motorcycle accidents long before training in WL. I did make it worse by showing off doing a move in 36 Hands.

    DW was a power lifter in High School and was squatting some serious weight considering his size. Think that had an affect on his knees or was it the WL training?

    There are others but I don't want to publicly state where their knee problems may have come from.

    How many guys in a physically active sport end up with joint problems when they reach their 40s?

    You know there are guys with 15+ years in WL without knee and hip problems?

    Sorry, I just haven't seen any of these claims turn out to be true. Most of the time they're just repeating what they've heard. Sorry, this is something of a pet peeve of mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    It could have been my teacher, dont know. He really had a great reputation within the art, hmmm... Nontheless, I have no problem with what wl is teaching and wish the wl members well. Like I said, I trained in the early 90's, things were a little different then or at least at the particular school I attended...
    SC was your teacher based on what I recall of your past posts. All in all the more I see, and learn, of the more mainstream NPM the more I see of it in WL. But if you're looking for purity of lineage then you might want to look somewhere else.
    Last edited by Yao Sing; 08-26-2007 at 03:18 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Sing View Post
    So where does your insight into WL mantis come from that you can state as fact that MC's mantis is not the same? And also, can you put me in touch with that source?



    I was at the Temple in the early 90's and I never saw any evidence of hiding the origin of the style. This is one of those myths perpetuated by frustrated ex-students like the one about the training damaging knees. Just not true at all.



    If you define Mantis by the forms taught then I can see your point but WL has Mantis moves and principles spread across most of what's taught. I'm really surprised it's not more evident to you after studying other more mainstream branches of Mantis.



    Like I said, I was there at the Temple around that time and I've always known it as a hybrid system although heavy on the Mantis for marketing purposes. I don't recall anyone claiming it to be pure Mantis. The name, the handbook, it's all there right out in the open.



    Everyone likes to throw these claims around yet when pressed nobody can provide evidence that it's true. I have a bad right knee but I slammed that in 2 different motorcycle accidents long before training in WL. I did make it worse by showing off doing a move in 36 Hands.

    DW was a power lifter in High School and was squatting some serious weight considering his size. Think that had an affect on his knees or was it the WL training?

    There are others but I don't want to publicly state where their knee problems may have come from.

    How many guys in a physically active sport end up with joint problems when they reach their 40s?

    You know there are guys with 15+ years in WL without knee and hip problems?

    Sorry, I just haven't seen any of these claims turn out to be true. Most of the time they're just repeating what they've heard. Sorry, this is something of a pet peeve of mine.



    SC was your teacher based on what I recall of your past posts. All in all the more I see, and learn, of the more mainstream NPM the more I see of it in WL. But if you're looking for purity of lineage then you might want to look somewhere else.
    Yao Sing,
    WL has always had mantis principles intermingled within the style. To me, that doesnt make it a mantis style. Injury to knees, etc. I seen it time and time again with WL students. Even my teacher, who was extremely talanted had extensive knee problems that developed after training in WL. All this really doesnt matter anyway. I spent many years in WL and have NO misunderstanding about the system. Even alot of the old timers have left WL to train and teach in other styles. WL is great for those who WANT that type of training. I hope WL continues to have good luck and open many more schools. I just dont buy into alot of there junk anymore. I have resources that contradict WL. I dont readily throw names out there. I tell everyone to research it like I did. "Because really, if one doesnt seek the truth it will never be found".... I'm not a WL'er anymore. I have nothing to gain by proving or disproving the style, but the info is out there for anyone who really wants to find it.

    Wah Lum Power Never Goes Sour
    Ron.
    The Style Doesn't Make The Master Famous. The Master Makes The Style Famous!

  3. #33
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    Interesting read, I have recently started studying under Sifu Cohen and I am enjoying it thus far and have had no issue's with my hips or knees. He is very adamant on proper poture when it comes to the knees and such and corrects you rather quickly when the footing is wrong etc.. Anyone have any infor on Bruce?

  4. #34

    Featherstone

    How is Bruce doing? I haven't seen him in a long time. Is his school still in the same location as it always was?
    Tell him Steve from Clearwater says hello.

  5. #35
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    yep, still in down town. He's a bit frazzled with us, but he is doing well. Classes arent what they used to be I guess. I'll let him know you say hello!

  6. #36
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    Cohen

    Steve and I use to train periodically up their in New Port Wrinkle. Had some good times with ole Bruce. He is not associated with Wah Lum anymore is he?Maybe I`ll talk Steve into dropping by for a visit next time I`m in Tampa.
    I am still a student practicing - Wang Jie Long

    "Don`t Taze Me Bro"

  7. #37
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    if I am correct he had a parting of the way's so to speak! That would be cool if y'all c'mon by, I'm sure Bruce would more then welcome the visit. There are still a few oldies around, or at least seniors to me.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Featherstone View Post
    if I am correct he had a parting of the way's so to speak! That would be cool if y'all c'mon by, I'm sure Bruce would more then welcome the visit. There are still a few oldies around, or at least seniors to me.

    Wah Lum Power Never Goes Sour!

    At least that was the saying back in the day. Is anyone still using this phrase? Or, the WL hand shake (with the hook)?

    Does anyone here know if Chan still has his system copyright or patent? Just curious if people are still being persued legally if they teach WL outside of the U.S. WL Temple in Florida?

    Cya's
    Ron
    The Style Doesn't Make The Master Famous. The Master Makes The Style Famous!

  9. #39
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    "Never goes sour", never heard it but I have heard "parting of the ways" plenty of times.
    I am still a student practicing - Wang Jie Long

    "Don`t Taze Me Bro"

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by yu shan View Post
    "Never goes sour", never heard it but I have heard "parting of the ways" plenty of times.
    OOPS! I remember hearing that a time or two as well (parting ways)

    Speaking of WL, I was going through some of my WL forms the other night and couldn't really remember what I liked about the style . I mean, I got to level 6 material, not much of 6th level but some. Nonetheless, I was trying to figure out what I liked about it, but nothing came to mind. However, I do like 36 hands and most of the weapons from spear on . I guess the problem I have with WL and doing their sets is, I dont really know where they come from!!!! You see, I was around when Chan would offer empty hand and weapon set seminars, he would literally combine this set with that set and make a new set. He did it all the time. We were even told after the seminar that this set was a creation of Chan Poi, of course, this was while we were getting ready to leave and get back home. Overall, I think this is my major problem. Where did this come from? Maybe I shouldn't be concerned with this, but I am. Obsesively at times. Oh well, I'm sure I'll get 100 reason why I shouldn't be concerned with origins since everything should be a blessing when you train kung fu . Ok, talk to you all later.

    Ron.
    Last edited by Citong Shifu; 08-28-2007 at 10:34 AM.
    The Style Doesn't Make The Master Famous. The Master Makes The Style Famous!

  11. #41
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    Bruce mention's it a lot how Chan would change this form or that form on a whim and then while testing he would yell that they do it wrong, it like this I never show you that... type stuff. Good times!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Featherstone View Post
    Bruce mention's it a lot how Chan would change this form or that form on a whim and then while testing he would yell that they do it wrong, it like this I never show you that... type stuff. Good times!

    YEP!

    That's the just of it!

    The kicker about all this is, people see this in WL all the time yet over look it like it doesn't happen. Well, Who knows? Seems like a pattern if you ask me.

    Ron.
    The Style Doesn't Make The Master Famous. The Master Makes The Style Famous!

  13. #43
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    Citong, do you mean like the similarity between 4th form and Plumflower form?
    I am still a student practicing - Wang Jie Long

    "Don`t Taze Me Bro"

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by yu shan View Post
    Citong, do you mean like the similarity between 4th form and Plumflower form?
    Um, I didnt learn the plumflower form. However, I did learn the plumflower staff set. What level is the plumflower form on?
    The Style Doesn't Make The Master Famous. The Master Makes The Style Famous!

  15. #45
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    I've been out of it for quite awhile now so I don't know if anyone still says "Wah Lum power never goes sour" but it was thrown around a lot with a certain group during their time period.



    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    [B][I][COLOR="Red"]I guess the problem I have with WL and doing their sets is, I dont really know where they come from!!!!
    See, this to me is really odd. I don't see the value in where forms come from. I just don't rank forms all that high. What's critical in a style, any style, is the techniques.

    Forms are a training aid and it's a good sign of knowing the material if you can create forms. As I see it they should be put together as needed. Worshiping forms is really focusing in the wrong direction and a big waste of time.

    Seems like 99% seem to feel there's way too much focus on forms these days and that's what's dragging TCMA down.

    A good, knowledgeable instructor should be able to create forms and drills on short order. The better the instructor the better the forms and drills. MC can do both, and I've seen him throw together drills on the spot.

    That tells me he knows the techniques, which is more important (to me at least) then having the ability to recites sequences of movements by rote.

    You seem like a good guy. I would suggest you focus on what counts, techniques, and not so much on choreography.

    And yes, Bruce is out of the system. Been out for awhile. I think most of the guys from my time and before are gone.

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