Top MMA stand up strikers who avoid the ground

[Knifefighter]

The quote above leaves me a bit curious about one thing: what was the difference between the 'real grapplers' in the MMA group, with their 'large takedown repertoires', and the 'true grappler' who showed you the light? What were the MMA folks missing that became so quickly obvious when you met The Truth?

I'm sincerely curious about this, because you see a lot of the Cult of Grappling out there, which has strong similarities to the Cult of Chi and the Cult of Forms and the Cult of MMA in that folks don't know what they think they know, because they're learning the Best Thing in the World.

She doesn't know and is more than likely making everything up. The fact is that submission grapplers, BJJ'ers, and MMA fighters (as a group) don't have especially good takedowns. The people with great takedowns (who may be part of the above mentioned groups, but do not make up the majority) are wrestlers (greco, freestyle or folkstyle) or former wrestlers who have at least some collegiate or open level competition experience.

[Pork Chop]

DPL is right... you don't have to be good at takedowns to be good at defending agaisnt them. You just have to learn and practice good takedown defense against people with good takedown skills

Just to play devil's advocate.
I used to get caught with a sanshou version of seionage a lot... a LOT a lot...
that is until i went to a judo class and started studying judo...
yeah, they taught me some new defenses, but i don't think i would've found those defenses on my own until i actually started training the style itself...
learning the concepts of kuzushi and the fit helped me understand the throw & how to defend it much better as well.
Now I'm not a judo guy; doubt I could pull off an ogoshi on a beginner, but my time in that class helped me defend those takedowns better.
So in my case it helped.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just to play devil's advocate.
I used to get caught with a sanshou version of seionage a lot... a LOT a lot...
that is until i went to a judo class and started studying judo...
yeah, they taught me some new defenses, but i don't think i would've found those defenses on my own until i actually started training the style itself...
learning the concepts of kuzushi and the fit helped me understand the throw & how to defend it much better as well.
Now I'm not a judo guy; doubt I could pull off an ogoshi on a beginner, but my time in that class helped me defend those takedowns better.
So in my case it helped.

You are quite correct, see my earlier posts on what is taught first in judo, BJJ, wrestling, etc, is it the attacks or the defenses?

[Becca]

The quote above leaves me a bit curious about one thing: what was the difference between the 'real grapplers' in the MMA group, with their 'large takedown repertoires', and the 'true grappler' who showed you the light? What were the MMA folks missing that became so quickly obvious when you met The Truth?

I'm sincerely curious about this, because you see a lot of the Cult of Grappling out there, which has strong similarities to the Cult of Chi and the Cult of Forms and the Cult of MMA in that folks don't know what they think they know, because they're learning the Best Thing in the World.

The one's I was used to are more like journeymen or high level neophytes. The one's I've been exposed to in the last 2 months are true artists. I walked into that gym looking to make my kung fu work better and found that there is a whole depth to grappling I never knew existed. I still believe alot of the big mouths you here from are "cult grapplers."

Submission wrestling is Brian's specialty. (He doesn't seem entierly comfortable being called coach. I'm not entierly comfortable calling him Brian. ) But that is by no means all he trains. I've never heard him say anything ngative about any art. I sat and had very enlightening discussions with him on everything from wrestling to jujitsu to the various traditional arts. He ses value in skill and seems to see no point in "purety battles". If it works, or can be made to work, it has value. And almost everything can be made to work.

[Becca]

She doesn't know and is more than likely making everything up. The fact is that submission grapplers, BJJ'ers, and MMA fighters (as a group) don't have especially good takedowns. The people with great takedowns (who may be part of the above mentioned groups, but do not make up the majority) are wrestlers (greco, freestyle or folkstyle) or former wrestlers who have at least some collegiate or open level competition experience.

LOL! You're not going to call me out on the Internet Challenge thread are you? I said I was training with a submission wrestler. As in a colligate wrestler who went on to add submissions to his game after school.

[bodhitree]

LOL! You're not going to call me out on the Internet Challenge thread are you? I said I was training with a submission wrestler. As in a colligate wrestler who went on to add submissions to his game after school.

That would make him a wrestler (first).

[DPL]

The one's I was used to are more like journeymen or high level neophytes. The one's I've been exposed to in the last 2 months are true artists. I walked into that gym looking to make my kung fu work better and found that there is a whole depth to grappling I never knew existed. I still believe alot of the big mouths you here from are "cult grapplers."

Thanks for the response but I'm actually looking for more specifics and less generalization. I already got that the MMA folks were missing something and the new guys were good. I'm asking specifically what the MMA folks were missing. Techniques, etc. What was it that the MMA folks were missing? Why were they not anywhere near the same league as the submission grappler/wrestler you're now studying with?

[DPL]

She doesn't know and is more than likely making everything up. The fact is that submission grapplers, BJJ'ers, and MMA fighters (as a group) don't have especially good takedowns. The people with great takedowns (who may be part of the above mentioned groups, but do not make up the majority) are wrestlers (greco, freestyle or folkstyle) or former wrestlers who have at least some collegiate or open level competition experience.

Funny you should say this, 'cause my initial response to her post was that it was just a little too conveniently tailored to my argument, and her initial 'submission grappler' has now also a little too conveniently morphed into a wrestler with collegiate experience after you made this post, but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and let her give some specifics on the training.

[Becca]

Thanks for the response but I'm actually looking for more specifics and less generalization. I already got that the MMA folks were missing something and the new guys were good. I'm asking specifically what the MMA folks were missing. Techniques, etc. What was it that the MMA folks were missing? Why were they not anywhere near the same league as the submission grappler/wrestler you're now studying with?

I haven't ben rolling with the good ones long enough to pin point it better for you, sorry. I just notice that there is a definant difference, like how a TKD kicker is better than a KF kicker by vertue of specialization. A submission wrestler is better that a sumbission grappler the same way. I'll let you know when and if I can clarify it better.

But since you are saying I have "tailoerd" my argument, you can read more about my wrestling training here, starting about post # 96.