TCMA in MMA

[Lucas]

So a couple of the current topics got me thinking....i know its rare, but i happens and sometimes i scare myself.

anyhow.

Do any of you think its even possible for a strict TCMA practitioner to enter an MMA event and do well?

now here is the distinction i am drawing.

we all know that TCMA, TRADITIONALLY, is only really tcma if we accept the skills and abilities from any source that is effecient, applicable and tested.

NOW, in this particular thread, i am posing the question from the standpoint of TCMA folks who are of the disposition to believe that their CMA they study has all the elements they need in fighting without having to cross train in wresting, submission fighting, etc.

if that makes sense at all.

the reason i decide to pose the question from the apparently absured notion that some tcma folks have is because this is the weakest link. and we all know a chain is only as good as.....

personally, my answer is No. you cannot. you MUST cross train in the areas your opponents will excell in. yada yada yada....

[MasterKiller]

They can probably compete on some level, but not at a high level. Certainly not professionally.

[WinterPalm]

One problem is posed with regards to training that will put you in a grey area or one or the other depending on who you talk to.

That is: TCMA, at least as I know it, focuses the majority of the time on striking and the standing range. We do have joint locks, submissions, and wrestling techniques, but in order to compete against people that do all these things equally, you would need to at least have some partners that can push you into unfamiliar areas and show you what you need to train against.
Does this mean you are now a wrestler or a BJJ guy? I don't think so, but if you want to play the MMA game, it makes sense to train your stuff against guys doing their stuff so you can compete better.

Would you play hockey without knowing how to wrist shot or pass and only know how to slap shot?

[Lucas]

my thoughts as well.

so i wonder how long it will take before this type of thinking becomes more universal.

if ever

[tattooedmonk]

do you mean traditional in the sense of demilitarized martial arts that we see most schools teaching?Because there is a difference between the two.Authentic traditional martial arts would be more like what we see the guys in MMA events do. ( fighting,conditioning, and training. )

[tattooedmonk]

That is: TCMA, at least as I know it, focuses the majority of the time on striking and the standing range. We do have joint locks, submissions, and wrestling techniques

if you are not doing these things then what are you doing ??
these are all part of traditional martial arts. The way that schools are structured and run now are called traditional but this in correct. They are only traditional in the sense that this is the way they have been passed down from one generation to the next. Pretty lame way to pass down the material without any martial intent , don't you think??

[tattooedmonk]

comes from the latin word traditio meaning to" hand over" or "pass down". MMA is a traditional martial art. However they have diffenet traditions.If it was not it could not be passed down , handed over , or taught to anyone?

Now I know that mixed martial arts is where diferent aspects of fighting are brought in from multiple sources like boxing/ kickboxing, wrestling/ JJ, etc. But would an art that has multiple methods of fighting also be considered a mixed martial art, in the broadests sense??

[RonH]

Would you play hockey without knowing how to wrist shot or pass and only know how to slap shot?

Yes, because I willed the blighter to pass through everything except the net and the ice.

So a couple of the current topics got me thinking....i know its rare, but i happens and sometimes i scare myself.

anyhow.

Do any of you think its even possible for a strict TCMA practitioner to enter an MMA event and do well?

now here is the distinction i am drawing.

we all know that TCMA, TRADITIONALLY, is only really tcma if we accept the skills and abilities from any source that is effecient, applicable and tested.

NOW, in this particular thread, i am posing the question from the standpoint of TCMA folks who are of the disposition to believe that their CMA they study has all the elements they need in fighting without having to cross train in wresting, submission fighting, etc.

if that makes sense at all.

the reason i decide to pose the question from the apparently absured notion that some tcma folks have is because this is the weakest link. and we all know a chain is only as good as.....

personally, my answer is No. you cannot. you MUST cross train in the areas your opponents will excell in. yada yada yada....

Do you mean does it have all of what's needed without bringing in people from other styles to fight against/learn from or do you mean where you train against people of other styles to help you get a greater understanding of just what is capable of your own style? Where learning what another might do with a style not your own is secondary, where learning how adaptable your style is to situations is the primary focus?

[unkokusai]

Oh brother, here we go again...

[Dim Wit Mak]

So a couple of the current topics got me thinking....i know its rare, but i happens and sometimes i scare myself.

anyhow.

Do any of you think its even possible for a strict TCMA practitioner to enter an MMA event and do well?

now here is the distinction i am drawing.

we all know that TCMA, TRADITIONALLY, is only really tcma if we accept the skills and abilities from any source that is effecient, applicable and tested.

NOW, in this particular thread, i am posing the question from the standpoint of TCMA folks who are of the disposition to believe that their CMA they study has all the elements they need in fighting without having to cross train in wresting, submission fighting, etc.

if that makes sense at all.

the reason i decide to pose the question from the apparently absured notion that some tcma folks have is because this is the weakest link. and we all know a chain is only as good as.....

personally, my answer is No. you cannot. you MUST cross train in the areas your opponents will excell in. yada yada yada....

Assuming similar physical stature and athletic ability, do you think a MMA could enter a kwoon with no rules and do well?

[Knifefighter]

Assuming similar physical stature and athletic ability, do you think a MMA could enter a kwoon with no rules and do well?

Similar physical stature, age, years of training, etc., MMA wins 49 times out of 50.

[YiLiQuan1]

Similar physical stature, age, years of training, etc., MMA wins 49 times out of 50.

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree.

MMA - simpler skill set; experience using skill set in competitive, resistant environment; effectiveness of techniques based on actual use, not belief.

Typical CMA - complex skill set; experience using skill set against other students of same style only, infrequently against resisting opponent; effectiveness of technique based primarily on belief, not actual use.

Sad, but true.

[WinterPalm]

I think many things are hard to say.

We train very hard where I train as my Sifu taught and as I ensure students do. MMA people only train against others usually doing MMA type of fighting. The traditional arts offer techniques and perspectives not commonly encountered by MMA folks and this can be a shock.

Without a doubt you have be regularily sparring and doing it with good technique, tempo, intensity, and sparring partners.
It's not some mystical thing that all of a sudden happens, a there is a lot of TCMA crap but there is also a lot of good!

It all comes down to doing what you do better than the next guy does his thing.

[RonH]

Some take the idea of 'simplify how you fight; take what works and discard what doesn't' without understanding that to truly be able to simplify something, a thorough understanding of an entire thing needs to happen before actually simplifying it. Without the thorough understanding, the simplification made is not much more than really a guess at what the simplification 'could' be.

[brianK]

Have any of you guys talking about how simple MMA is ever trained in BJJ, catch, sambo, or any other good system of submission grappling? The ground game is incredibly intricate. The stand up may be simpler, but even in China the sport sanda guys tend to out perform TCMA guys when it comes to fighting. And linking the different ranges together fluidly is hardly simple.

Just because a training method produces skill more quickly than the traditional way doesn't necessarily mean it is simpler, dumbed down, or otherwise inadequate. Rather, they might be focusing on what has been shown to produce fighting skill, as some people do get into martial arts to learn how to fight.

Brian