Expertise

[TenTigers]

does that mean if a guy is trainnig in Muay Thai,BJJ,and boxing, but does not compete, he is not doing MMA?

[Fu-Pow]

does that mean if a guy is trainnig in Muay Thai,BJJ,and boxing, but does not compete, he is not doing MMA?

I think that's where my confusion is, some people claim to train MMA but don't compete in any MMA venue. Are they still considered to practice MMA? If so, how is that different from anyone that crosstrains across multiple styles? For example, Jeet Kune Do.

FP

[Vash]

I think that's where my confusion is, some people claim to train MMA but don't compete in any MMA venue. Are they still considered to practice MMA? If so, how is that different from anyone that crosstrains across multiple styles? For example, Jeet Kune Do.

FP

From my perspective, one trains in mixed martial arts when:

1. Specific training is had for each range of one-on-one physical violence (striking, standing grappling/throwing, ground work)

2. Training time is devoted to the free-flow of non-cooperative sparring between all ranges of physical violence

3. Partner-Resistant training composes the majority of training time

. . .

Me, I love mixed martial arts, as a venue (UFC, Pride, Bodog, King of the Cage, etc) and as a training paradigm (what better way to make the techniques of our TMA work). At the end of the day, though, I'm still going to be a karate man that loves training, whatever range I'm in.

[Liddel]

Me, I love mixed martial arts, as a venue (UFC, Pride, Bodog, King of the Cage, etc) and as a training paradigm (what better way to make the techniques of our TMA work).

Amen Bruva.

[MasterKiller]

does that mean if a guy is trainnig in Muay Thai,BJJ,and boxing, but does not compete, he is not doing MMA?

If he trains at a Muay Thai class, and a BJJ class, and Boxing class, then he is training Muay Thai, BJJ, and Boxing. If he has one class that trains elements of all of these, he is training MMA.

I think that's where my confusion is, some people claim to train MMA but don't compete in any MMA venue. Are they still considered to practice MMA? If so, how is that different from anyone that crosstrains across multiple styles? For example, Jeet Kune Do.

FP

MMA clubs probably focus more on conditioning and sport-specific techniques and strategies than your average JKD club. For example, we spend a lot of time just learning how to use a cage/ring to your advantage.

Also, like Vash said, there is a tremendous amount of partner work, at various levels of intensity.

Cross training in multiple styles is MMA as long as those styles cover striking range, clinching range, and grappling range.

You don't have to study BJJ. There are other alternatives such as Sambo, freestyle wrestling, etc...

Boxing + Savate + CLF does not = MMA.

CLF + Freestyle wrestling = MMA.

[Fu-Pow]

If he trains at a Muay Thai class, and a BJJ class, and Boxing class, then he is training Muay Thai, BJJ, and Boxing. If he has one class that trains elements of all of these, he is training MMA.

Cross training in multiple styles is MMA as long as those styles cover striking range, clinching range, and grappling range.

Well these to statements seem to contradict each other but I think what you are getting at is that MMA is defined by the 3 ranges mentioned.

Ok, so this is where I'm going with this:

If we take the Sonnon training paradigm of Training Attributes, Practicing SKills and Competition as valid (and I haven't heard anything yet to the contrary and then you take the 3 ranges of stand up, clinch and ground then you are going to basically have to make training your fulltime job.

Is this really tenable for your average Joe? Wouldn't they be better learning one of those ranges really well, rather than learn the basics of all of them?

FP



You don't have to study BJJ. There are other alternatives such as Sambo, freestyle wrestling, etc...

Boxing + Savate + CLF does not = MMA.

CLF + Freestyle wrestling = MMA.[/QUOTE]

[MasterKiller]

Is this really tenable for your average Joe? Wouldn't they be better learning one of those ranges really well, rather than learn the basics of all of them?

My club trains 3 days a week, for 1.5 hours each class.
I manage the time so we are always working, and I have the curriculum set up so we rotate lessons between grappling, clinching, throwing, and striking. I'm also lucky in that I have a couple of guys to help me teach that have a lot more experience with wrestling and grappling than I do.

The lesson for the day is always focused..neck tie escapes, or throws from the clinch, or specific combinations to set up leg kicks. So we can work three or four related things with various levels of intensity, then we pressure test those moves sparring/rolling. For example, if the class was on kickboxing combinations, we do San Shou sparring that night. If the class was on shoots and takedowns, we might just do rounds trying to take each down at full intensity.

If you have problems with people standing around talking, or just doing something a couple of times and then wanting to move on, you should use a round timer (like gymboss.com) and make everyone work until the round ends. ROund 1 is jab cross combo, round 2 is jab, lead hook, right leg kick, etc...

We get a lot accomplished on those 3 days, and I am in the best shape I've ever been in. I would wager most of my students with 6 months of training could beat the average TMA student with 2 years of training (one of my students beat two of my sihings pretty soundly when he had just 1 year under me).

3 days of training hard in class (I am literally soaking wet after class) + a little extra work at home (kettlebells, skipping rope, and kung fu forms) is about all I can squeeze into my schedule. But it works well for me and my students get better every day.

Besides, Kung Fu has always been a "jack of all trades" style. Ti Da Shuai Na, bro.

[sunfist]

Is this really tenable for your average Joe? Wouldn't they be better learning one of those ranges really well, rather than learn the basics of all of them?

While you could argue just boxing or whatever would develop basic self defence capability faster, MMA will still see you becoming capable far more quickly than the TCMA.

[RonH]

While you could argue just boxing or whatever would develop basic self defence capability faster, MMA will still see you becoming capable far more quickly than the TCMA.

I've been seeing this for some time. More capable faster. Just how is it that it's being defined by people? You have to admit that there are probably some defintions that are more damaging to the body, shortening the 'lifespan' of how long you're a capable fighter.

[lkfmdc]

that are more damaging to the body, shortening the 'lifespan' of how long you're a capable fighter.

Ron, you need to contact Helio Gracie immediately and let him know that all that hard training is gonna keep him from being active later in life

[Knifefighter]

I've been seeing this for some time. More capable faster. Just how is it that it's being defined by people? You have to admit that there are probably some defintions that are more damaging to the body, shortening the 'lifespan' of how long you're a capable fighter.

Nope... a retired 65 year old beat up and hobbled former professional Muay Thai fighter will still beat the crap out of 99% of all of the people doing "safe" training.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Here's a definition of MMA: When you're put in front of your opponent, you do whatever it takes to win, within the established ruleset, or anything goes if there is no ruleset, based on your strengths and weaknesses. For instance, if you were up against a guy who KO'd 70 opponents, and had only lost 10 matches, all by submission, you'd probably go for the submission, because you don't want to take your chances with the KO's. You might not be a great submission artist, but you're definately not up to his striking ability, or willing to test it. If he's better on the ground than you, they ditch that if you can, and stand back up. Adapt.

Now, a kungfu guy has no choice, and he has to beat the punches, which is a hard task.

I respect MMA for that, although I can't afford to train it, don't have the time, and don't really have the desire to do so right now. But hey, who knows what I'll think in a couple of years?

[unkokusai]

The funny thing is that the MMAers that post here seem to think themselves more than qualified to comment on kung fu but a kung fu person is not allowed to make comments on MMA.

What a bunch of BS.

Why do folks feel the need to whine about this kind of thing? Say what you have to say already! If what you say is BS, is unsupported, or runs contrary to what a lot of people with a lot of experience have found to be true, then they will let you know and you will just have to defend your comments if you can. Kind of like a...what do they call it? ah, yes a 'discussion.'

[unkokusai]

does that mean if a guy is trainnig in Muay Thai,BJJ,and boxing, but does not compete, he is not doing MMA?

He's sure missing something!

[Shaolin Wookie]

He's sure missing something!

At first I thought you were implying Ten Tigers was dim. But then I'm thinking....here's an example of a guy doing boxing, muay thai, and BJJ, all two-man competitive sports, and he's not competing? Then what is he doing? He would be missing something.....

The point.

But maybe you think Ten Tigers is dim....I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, or take them out....