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Thread: Bone against bone

  1. #1

    Bone against bone

    I was thinking the other day about techniques that distribute force perpendicular to the bones. For example, Choy Lay Fut's Sau Chui or the Muy Thai round kick. I have seen with my own 2 eyes people break their arms or legs using these techniques.

    Techniques that channel the force through the length of the bone seem to be safer because that is direction that bones are used to dealing with force. For example, a straight punch or thrust kick.

    In the long term this seems to be a better long term strategy.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    u can make bones used to reciveing perpendicular force by using stuff like that often

    a high amount of clacium is recomended aswell lol i have never broken a bone soing stuff liek that

    i do drink alot of milk tho hmmm

    anyway oush kicks have their place aswell

    i find i can do alot more damage with the former tho
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fu-Pow View Post

    I was thinking the other day
    there's a first time for everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Fu-Pow View Post

    For example, Choy Lay Fut's Sau Chui or the Muy Thai round kick. I have seen with my own 2 eyes people break their arms or legs using these techniques.
    I saw a toddler fall down a flight of stairs and bust open his head, time to get rid of all stairs!


    Quote Originally Posted by Fu-Pow View Post

    In the long term this seems to be a better long term strategy.
    you giving out fighting strategy

    Quote Originally Posted by Fu-Pow View Post

    Thoughts?
    I think you should STFU and study something real before you go on giving advice to people....

    maybe you should just ignore the entire forum
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    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
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    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
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  4. #4
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    The smaller the individual bone, the greater likelihood that they will break.

    You can develop 'padding' by building muscles and tightening the connective tissue, but that padding will eventually wear away by repeated blows and/or old age. You can try making the bones themselves stronger, such as breaking them and letting them heal, so there is more bone material.

    The reason a lot of people have foot probelms from walking all day is because they put their weight on the front end of their feet. That end is not designed to support the whole weight of the body for long periods of time. The heel is. You find that when you shift your weight to your heels more often, the toe end of your feet won't hurt as much. This is also why, when you break bricks, the force goes through the butt of the palm, not the fingertips.

    Sweeping the right foot/leg from the right to the left decreases the amount of material behind the impact site of the kicking leg. The design of tanks for the battlefield are not straight up and down, but angled. While using the same amount of material, they can put more of the substance behind the direction they are expecting an attack to come from without wasting more material. That's why the front panel of tanks and tank like vehicles that are wheeled over the last 50 years or so are low in the front, with the other end of the front/top panel higher in the back. The same goes for the front/bottom panel that's higher in the front and lower in the back. There are some variations for tank and tank like vehicles, but a large part of their design has been this way.

    The same holds true for long term kicking.


    Edit: To illustrate my point, the top image versus the bottom one.

    http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?i...5277387jf1.png

    Not drawn to scale.
    Last edited by RonH; 09-09-2007 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Added example

  5. #5
    RonH taling to Fu Pow, this thread needs to be re-titled "bonehead against bonehead"
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    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    RonH taling to Fu Pow, this thread needs to be re-titled "bonehead against bonehead"



    Lol!

    Alright...I'm awake NOW!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fu-Pow View Post
    Techniques that channel the force through the length of the bone seem to be safer because that is direction that bones are used to dealing with force. For example, a straight punch or thrust kick.

    In the long term this seems to be a better long term strategy.

    Thoughts?
    I've had fun with this idea in relation to "soft" styles, Crane styles, and Wing Chun. "Soft" styles often claim applicability into old age, implying reduced bone structure. Consider as well that bird bones are hollow, fragile, and therefore susceptible to perpendicular impacts. The popular story about Wing Chun being made for a woman also implies a fineness and frailty of the bones.

    IMO, perpendicular forces in relation to our own long bones are most effectively applied in the form of Fulcrums - setups, takedowns, trips, throws, locks, etc.

    Christian
    "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero

  8. #8
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    Duncan Leung/Alan Lee's Wing Chun is not the same animal you describe. Their tan-sao, and gaun-sao will break bone.
    Hung-Ga uses the same method, and we have had "mishaps" in class, where one student broke a fellow student's radius with a cutting block. It was unfortunate,but that is what it was designed for.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    Duncan Leung/Alan Lee's Wing Chun is not the same animal you describe. Their tan-sao, and gaun-sao will break bone.
    Hung-Ga uses the same method, and we have had "mishaps" in class, where one student broke a fellow student's radius with a cutting block. It was unfortunate,but that is what it was designed for.
    Ah yes, Ulnas vs. Radii. There's definitely a structural advantage that can be used effectively, provided all of the conditions are met. Perpendicular bone strikes are possible, wild, powerful, and common, though not necessarily optimal.

    Flashback:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3j-Z7pnffI

    Christian
    "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero

  10. #10
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    I always use that clip as an illustration of how not to kick. It's not that shin kicking is bad as such, but if you hit with the weakest part of your unsupported shin against the strongest part of his well planted shin, bad things are going to happen.
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
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  11. #11
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    by that logic an elbow strike will be bad for the radius or ulna.
    but we know that an elbow strike exerts a lot of force and doesn't
    cause the arm to break.

    when any of the strikes mentioned are delivered with the correct structure (acquired through training) then the danger of breaking something is only there when the person is not doing the strike with proper structure.

    imo anyway.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  12. #12
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    Shin breaks happen in MT when the striking shin is NOT prependicular (90) to the blocking shin bone.
    The shin round kick MUST come in on a 90 or angled down, angles up exposes the weak "flat" part of the shin and you want to make contact with the "sharp edge" of the shin.

  13. #13
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    Indeed, hence the first line of my post, and why the most common thing to hear me saying during kicking training is "get your hips over!!!"
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
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  14. #14
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    Techniques that channel the force through the length of the bone seem to be safer because that is direction that bones are used to dealing with force. For example, a straight punch or thrust kick.
    I would be willing to bet that far more people have broken their hand with a straight punch than with a sau choi or round kick collectively.
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  15. #15
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    I guess I'm simply partial to soft meeting hard and hard meeting soft.
    "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero

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