Literati Tradition: Neidan Meditation

[Scott R. Brown]

my opinion is... (JUST MY OPINION!)... no one can reach 'enlightenment' or 'immortality' while carrying out a normal life in this society. maybe if you had the simple life of a simple farmer, but im not sure if being a farmer is even not enough to reach these goals. as for internal alchemy..... i have researched a lot about it, yet i realize that not only would that take a hell of a lot of time and practice but also a lot of time understanding every little aspect about it.

by the way, how would one seperate from society.... what would you eat? how would you get food + water to you? where would you resort to?........ really, i want these questions answered because i want to do it someday for maybe 2 - 3 yrs.

thanks

Hi tai chi hermit,

Chris and Doc have posted some good information, to add a few things:

Hindus use the metaphor of the lotus flower that rises above the sewage it grows in. Life is to be lived, but it can be lived to the fullest when we rise above the superficial behaviors and attitudes that preoccupy the lives of most individuals. To live in the world but not be of the world is the key.

Society may bring with it obstacles, but those obstacles are the measure of development. Obstacles are meant to be overcome. It is easy for a sailor to navigate a calm sea, but a master sailor can also navigate the storms. An enlightened person is unaffected by the world system and rises above it just as the lotus rises about the muck. But remember the muck is the source of the lotus’s roots. Muck is only muck because we call it muck. Inherently there is no muck at all and this is why it is possible to gain realization no matter where we are. As Chris said, it is what you bring to you circumstances that determine your experience. It is your own perception/perspective, that determines whether you are living in muck or not.

Balance is important. There is a time for the world system and a time to retreat from it in order to recalibrate our purpose and restore our energies. When you feel over-stimulated by worldly endeavors that is a sign to retreat for a period of time. Learning to listen to your mind and body’s signals is important. Your mind and body send you the signals, just learn to listen to them and work on balance.

There is an ebb and flow to growth. There is a time of growth and a time of seeming stagnation or loss of gains. These times are built into the system so to speak and are part of the natural process of Tao as illustrated by Yin-Yang.

Do not be discouraged if realization is your goal. It is not a race and there is no necessarily well defined destination. It is likely that where you end up is not where you thought you were going. All this is part of the natural process of Tao. Go with the ride, but try to learn not to push the river, or redirect it to where you think it should go.

[Scott R. Brown]

Greetings..

First, i would be pleased if someone, anyone, would actually differentiate between philosophical Taoist practices and the aberration thereof, referred to, generally, as Religious Taoism..

Second, it has come to pass, after more than 5 years on this forum it is nearing the point of diminishing returns.. psuedo-intellectual nit-picking over minutia.. "where have all the flowers gone"..

So, if you're spending so much time talkin' it, you ain't spendin' enough time doin' it..

I think i'll take a sabatical, actually "living it" sounds pretty good right now..

Be well, ALL...

Hi Bob,

Try not to forget that "pseudo-intellectual nitpicking" is still "doing it" and "living it". It is ALL doing it and living it. We cannot NOT do it and live it. I know you know this so perhaps you are burning out and need a time to re-energize or re-focus yourself.

At any rate, your insights are always a benefit to any discussion and I for one will be happy to see you return when you are ready.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Adrian,

Another good post, thank you.

I would have to interject that certain Taoists, the Alchemists in particular, believed that seclusion from the world system was a benefit. There were other Taoists such as Liu I-ming that criticized this form of Taoist thought as an abberation and contrary to the principles of Tao. I agree with Liu on a larger scale, but would disagree on an individual scale.

I am of the opinion that we each interact with Tao according to our own temperaments. Therefore, some may be inclined to seclusion by their inherent nature. To coerce such a person to participate in the world system when it is contrary to their nature would cause them to be out of accord with Tao as it relates to their individual temperament.

To me, error occurs when one method is recommended as the only method for everyone rather than taking into account each individual's personal temperament. This view coincides with Hui-neng's admonition to teach each person using expedients that are in accord with that person's temperament.

[qiew]

Hi, Doc

The links are interesting and the pictures are great. I am most interested on the Nei Dan Tu (micro.jpg). Regretably, it is scanned to a small dpi of which the wordings are blur on enlargement. Can you please scan it to a bigger dpi to e-mail me.

Have you any in depth translation of those wording in simple chinese?

Many thanks.

Qiew

[cjurakpt]

Ch'an Buddhism however, is not concerned with social order. It is not concerned with becoming 'one' with the patterns of nature. It teaches that through the cultivation of the Mind, a practitioner is able to 'pierce' the outer layer of apparent phenomena - that is, the world as it presents itself to our senses. The Ch'an method guides the student to turn their Minds back, so that the essence of the Mnd itself maybe perceived. Now, a good Ch'an master, either lay or monastic, will point out that no matter where yyou are, either in a family or sat on a hill, the Mind-essence will be exactly the same and that perception of that essence is not dependent upon existential circumstance. Of course, there maybe times when secluded practice is required, to become 'sure' about things, but there will always be times when interaction is required. The Ch'an master then, is of the opinion that if one realises the essence of the Mind, and behaves inaccordance with that realisation, order is brought to social affairs (Confucianism), and by doing so, one acts inaccordance with change (Daoism).

precisely & well said; the "idea" is to work with things such as they are - any attempt to change the internal self-order (Daoist) or external world/social order (Conf.) is, at it's root, still originating with mind, and one cannot use the mind to "solve" the "problem" of the mind; for Ch'an, life and death are without intrinsic meaning, it is mind that fixates on the differentiation - sort of what Krisnamurti calls "pshychological time"; now, this is not advocating that one just walk into traffic - that would be confusing the relative with the absolute - even the Ch'an masters acknowledged that teaching involved "going into the weeds", basically working with the world as it is - being in it, not of it, in a sense

it's very interesting - in a way, it seems to me that Ch'an is addressing the basic biological urges of survival: essentially what motivates humanity / human society is the drive towards acquisition / retention of resources for survival - we need to have certain basic things to live - CH'an appears to try to address all the fear-based activites that motvate this; the question is, can the survival mechanism be "turned off", and can one exist in the world without it? maybe the trick is to become a wel-known Ch'an master and have many students who will just feed you ()...hard to say...

[Doc Stier]

Hi, Doc

The links are interesting and the pictures are great. I am most interested on the Nei Dan Tu (micro.jpg). Regretably, it is scanned to a small dpi of which the wordings are blur on enlargement. Can you please scan it to a bigger dpi to e-mail me.

Have you any in depth translation of those wording in simple chinese?

Many thanks.

Qiew

Qiew:

Here's a larger version of the image, just click on the enlargement box which appears when you point your mouse cursor at the image. Sorry, you're on your own for a translation.

http://free.000angels.com/libran/body/ngt.gif

Doc

[Scott R. Brown]

one cannot use the mind to "solve" the "problem" of the mind.

Hi Chris,

Actually D.T. Suzuki, in his commentary on the Sutra of Hui-Neng, states that according to Hui-Neng, this is exactly what the mind does . The only thing that may be used to solve the problem of the mind is the mind itself. It is mind turning back on itself that observes itself and knows itself. We commonly call this introspection.

CH'an appears to try to address all the fear-based activites that motvate this; the question is, can the survival mechanism be "turned off", and can one exist in the world without it? maybe the trick is to become a wel-known Ch'an master and have many students who will just feed you ()...hard to say...

When we transcend our conditioned interpretation of experiences it is easy to turn off the survival mechanism. This is because one perceives the inherent illusion of fear to begin with. In the end this is the greater or true survival mechanism. One's survival is not in question therefore there is nothing to fear. When there is nothing to fear our chances of physical survival are increased as a natural consequence.

[Doc Stier]

The Chinese Occult Universe

Between the 22nd and 12th centuries BC, Chinese thought was integrated into a robust system of cosmological and political significance. Incorporated within this were the six classes of occult arts, more specifically (1) astrology, (2) almanacs, (3) the five elements, (4) divination by stalks, (5) other methods of divination and (6) the system of forms (which includes physiognomy and fengshui or geomancy). The basic building blocks for this elaborate system were the Five Elements, which were thought to make up the universe, namely Water, Fire, Wood, Metal and Earth. Each of these five base elements was grouped with physical phenomena, which they were thought to influence, thus creating five different sets of forces or powers, termed the Five Powers.Hence the element Fire, whose basic attribute is heat, was grouped with the direction South, the daily time of high noon and the season of summer. Using the same approach, the four elements Fire & Water and Wood & Metal were grouped with similar physical phenomena and categorised into opposing sets of dynamically interactive Powers. The fifth element, Earth or soil, was incorporated within this schema, somewhat uncomfortably, to make up the Fifth of the Five Powers.

The Five Powers

http://www.imperialtours.net/images/..._fivepower.gif

Since the Ancients assumed that nature responded to the actions of humans, the interaction of the Five Powers was explained in such a way as to relate changes in time and space to human conduct. Thus a relationship was established between the conduct of nature and that of humankind. This is clearly illustrated in The Book of Rites , chapter 4:

"In the first month of spring the east wind resolves the cold. Creatures that have been torpid during the winter begin to move.. All plants bud and grow. The sovereign charges his assistants to disseminate lessons of virtue and harmonise governmental order. Prohibitions are given against cutting down trees. [because wood is the symbol of spring] In this month no warlike operations should be undertaken; such an undertaking is sure to be followed by calamities of heaven (ie natural disasters)."

The Emperor's actions therefore directly affected the course of nature. And it was as a direct result of this symbiotic relationship between the Emperor and Nature that Imperial rule was legitimised in the eyes of the people. This is why the Chinese Emperor's official title was "Emperor through the Mandate of Heaven and in accordance with the movements of the Five Powers."

Establishment of the Confucianist Model

The above format, was combined with the (1) theory of yin and yang and (2) the doctrine of the mean, so that by the 12th century BC King Wen could symbolically represent the pattern of change within the universe in his famous work, the Yi Jing or Book of Changes . This was the cosmological model that Confucius inherited and elaborated with moral significance.

1) The Theory of Yin and Yang:

Yang originally meant sunshine and Yin darkness or shadow. Soon, though, they came to refer to two opposing yet complementary cosmic forces. Yang is the universal, masculine principle that denotes the vigorous, bright, hot, dry, hard and active, while Yin is the feminine principle that inspires the passive, docile, cold, dark, wet and gentle. It is the intercourse of these two forces or principles that not only produces all things, but also governs all processes of change.

According to the beliefs underpinning the Book of Changes everything in the universe has a universal principle which defines it. Thus, for example, all walls must correspond to certain specifications to be classified as such; a wall must be upright, solid and thin, otherwise it isn't a wall. In the same way, houses, vehicles and seasons are defined by universal principles. And the same is true for sons, wives, kings and farmers. They all conform to defining, universal principles.

It is then alleged that each of these principles contain and react to different measures of Yin and Yang, depending on circumstance. For example, when a minister talks to a sovereign he should be amenable and passive - a yin characteristic. Yet when, in ancient China, that minister returns home and talks to his family members he should behave in a decisive and firm manner - characteristics of yang. Thus the same thing or person can respond to the prevalent cosmic forces of Yin and Yang in different ways depending on time and circumstance.

Further, the Book of Changes assumes that the general movement of a body or idea or emotion between Yin and Yang is described by the concept of reversal. And so Lao Zi, the Daoist founder who promotes this concept, writes "reversal is the movement of the Power." This means, for example, that the movement of the sun to its zenith (associated with yang) precipitates its reverse movement to the nadir (associated with yin). Similarly, the excessive heat of summer (yang) brings about a reverse movement in the opposite direction to lead us towards winter (yin). Or else in terms of Chinese history, China's continuing fluctuations between political unification (yin) and fragmentation (yang) could be said to evidence this law. Thus every class of thing fluctuates between yin and yang polar opposites about a mean.

2) The Doctrine of the Mean:

This teaching claims that for harmony (the mean) to be ensured every process should happen at a time and in a way proper and fit for it to occur. Thus, winter should begin in December, babies should talk after two years and relatively young people should get married. If events happen in such a way as to conform to a natural sequence, then harmony will prevail and the events, incorporated within this harmonic order, will stand a better chance of being propitious.

In the 12th century BC the laws of the occult system, the theory of yin and yang and the law of the timely mean were synthesised into a complete cosmological and metaphysical system, which is symbolically represented in the Book of Changes .

The Book of Changes

The Book of Changes is comprised of a logically developing series of 64 images mapping every possible yin yang change process. Since every physical and abstract element of reality is susceptible to each of these defined change processes, the whole universe, past, present and future can be viewed through their images.

You use the book of changes like this: you go to a practitioner to inquire about an important event in your life. The practitioner, after a long procedure of yarrow stalk selection, will tell you which of the 64 change processes is controlling your particular event. She will show you its image, or "hexagram", and then will describe the usual characteristics of this change process in your circumstance, informing you how best to act (in accordance with the doctrine of the mean) in order to ensure the propitious completion of the event.

The images in the Book of Changes are called hexagrams, so called because they are made up of six lines. However, it is more correct to think of each hexagram as composed of two trigrams, one on top of the other, each of which is made up of three lines. There are in all 8 trigrams, and by combining each trigram with the other (8 x 8) you get the 64 images or hexagrams that make up the Book of Changes . Each trigram is made up of a combination of three undivided (yang) or divided (yin) lines. And, in the manner of the Five Powers, each trigram is associated with a variety of physical forces to form the visual representation of an interactively linked, dynamic universe. The fundamental visual concepts are expressed in the following popular schema. At the centre are the black and white Yin Yang fish, simultaneously combining to make a whole, flowing into one another to represent the endless process of change. Around this are each of the eight trigrams, placed in such a way as to correspond to their natural compass points.

http://www.imperialtours.net/images/...mg_yi_jing.gif

When you read about Confucianism or Daoism, you will see how the main concepts of the Book of Changes are to be found at the root of much Chinese thought.

Article originally presented by Imperial Tours

[Doc Stier]

Excerpts from Science and Magic in Ge Hong's 'Baopu-Zi Nei Pian'
by Evgueni A. Tortchinov
St. Petersburg State University, Russia)

Firstly, Ge Hong rejects the opinion that only herbal drugs are beneficial for health as well as for the prolongation of life.

He states that drugs made from minerals and metallic substances are much more useful than the herbal ones. The herbal drugs are weak and the strong heat destroys them but minerals and metals are strong and stable: for example, the heat can not destroy cinnabar which changes itself into the "water silver", or mercury. After this statement, Ge Hong notes that ordinary people do not know even such simple things as the origin of the cinnabar (HgS) in the mercury. They say that cinnabar is red and the mercury is white and so, it is impossible that the white substance produces the red one.

The second aspect of this passage is more interesting. Ge Hong declares that the common people ("worldly people", or shi ren ) are ignorant even of such things as the nature of the cinnabar and so, it is not surprising that they do not believe in such subtle things as the way of immortality.

Ge Hong describes the healing qualities of different plants and herbs, but, as he states, the common people do not want to use them and prefer the superstitious religious methods of healing (such as prayers, sacrifices, fortune-telling, etc.). They do not believe in the art of the famous physicians but rely on shamans and sorcerers. And if it is so, it is very naturally that they do not believe that because of the eating of the Golden and Cinnabar Elixirs immortality can be obtained. Moreover, they reject even the usefulness of mushrooms and flowers for the prolongation of life. How can we hope that they will recognize the truthfulness of the way of immortals?

It is significant that Ge Hong treats the Daoist alchemy with its super mundane aims in the same terms as the traditional medicine and pharmacology. Thus, alchemy and the "arts of immortals" for Ge Hong are not of supernatural, or religious nature; they are "positive" and "scientific" in the same way as medicine and pharmacology are. The rejection of these arts certifies the ignorance of the common people preferring the "superstitious" religious ways to the means of medicine and the Daoist arts which have the same character as medicine. And this character is quite opposed to the superstitious nature of purely religious practices.

Ge Hong not only demonstrates the contrast between the "scientific" knowledge of the sages and the ignorance of the ordinary people but uses the "positive", or "experimental" contents of the Daoist texts for support of his Daoist approaches. Ge Hong's beliefs in immortality and alchemy obtain their "scientific" ground in the empirical and positive sides of the Daoist classics (jing) becoming the proven results of the real verified knowledge. Thus, knowledge and experience (not faith, or intuition) were the basis of Ge Hong's beliefs in the immortals and in the Daoist methods of the attainment of their exalted state.

Nevertheless, it is obvious that BPZNP is full of the information about magical and supernatural events which are for the external observer quite identical with the contents of the beliefs of the Ge Hong's opponents. But for Ge Hong himself they are very different: for him the Daoist beliefs, the ardent proponent of which he was, had a scientific and positive nature based on the experimental data and positive knowledge of the sages (being of the same kind as the data of medicine, etc.), and the beliefs of his opponents were devoid of such basis, being superstitious and ignorant. It is possible to note that there were two kinds of Ge Hong's opponents and interlocutors: the representatives of the so called Confucian rationalism and the "superstitious" followers of the folk religious cults.


It is substantial for Ge Hong to have authoritative sources of information recognized by the Daoist tradition (the knowledge of the lineage of the holders of the text is also important). Such sources are called by Ge Hong "The Classics of Immortals" (xian jing). Not only the origin in the Daoist classics was the testimony of the validity of the information about the immortals and immortality for Ge Hong. He also evaluated greatly the witnesses of the Chinese authoritative texts of the Confucian and historiographical tradition.

It can be said that Ge Hong recognizes the following criteria of the validity of the beliefs and different kinds of opinions related to the subjects of science and religion: 1. The experience; 2. The testimonies of the Daoist Classics and of the well known and highly estimated by the Chinese tradition non-Daoist texts. The practices and beliefs which had no such scriptural support (as in the case of the folk beliefs and cults) were rejected by Ge Hong as superstitious and excessive. Thus, Ge Hong tries to represent his techniques of immortality and his alchemical and occult ideas as an integral part of the "great tradition" of the Chinese culture. For him they are not only equal to the ideas of the Confucian sages but even higher and more exalted than the Confucian doctrines (according to Ge Hong's position Confucianism is the branch and Daoism is its root).

It is rather clear that Ge Hong greatly evaluates experience and laboratory alchemical operations. But these operations as such have direct relations to magic and ritual behaviour. It is impossible to divide technical, magical and ritualistic aspects of the scientific approaches of Ge Hong. He denies the idea of the automatic, or mechanical effect of the elixirs, combining the technical and chemical procedures with fasting, prayers and purification.

Thus, it can be said that practical character of Ge Hong's alchemy does not prevent him from the declaration of highly ritualized nature of the alchemical doings. Therefore, it bears remarkable (to the mind of a contemporary Westerner, of course) contradiction between science and magic. And this magic permeates the very core of Ge Hong's understanding of alchemy and medicine. But this magic is of quite another nature than the superstitious beliefs of the common people: it has its roots in the Daoist stratum of the great tradition of the Chinese culture being to Ge Hong's mind supported by the experience of the sages of old who transmitted their knowledge and methods to the contemporary Daoists throw the unbreakable lineage from one mater to another.

Moreover, this experience of the ancient sages must not be only a subject of the so called "blind faith": it can be verified by the alchemist throw his own laboratory doings. Ge Hong does not admire the antiquity as such. Like ancient Legalists and his predecessor in the field of skepticism and empiricism Wang Chong, Ge Hong looks at the antiquity like on the trace of a giant: the giant has gone away and his trace is not he himself. Therefore, the ancient witnesses for Ge Hong have their value only within the frame of the Daoist experimental approach. If Ge Hong was only a mystic it could be waited for his interest in the intuitive insights into the hidden nature of the reality underlying the transitory phenomena. But we can not find such an interest. The passages dedicated to the meditative practices for metaphysical understanding are very rare in BPZNP. The only exception is the beginning of the 18th chapter of this work (Di zhen) dedicated to the contemplation of the True One (zhen yi) which is the manifestation of the Mysterious Dao (xuan) in the things and in the physiological structures of the Daoist "subtle body" ("the fields of cinnabar", dantian). But even this passage relates mostly to the practices of the "preservation of the One" (shou yi) and not to the insight type meditations. The aids of these kind of contemplation are protection from the enemies and illness, the obtaining of super powers throw multiplication of the body, etc.

The practical sides of Daoism (the preparation of the great elixir of immortality and supporting methods) and corresponding to them the doctrines of the immortals - xian are the principle subjects of Ge Hong's interests which directly correlate to his scientific and experiential approaches. To my mind, Ge Hong was not a mystic or a seeker of intuitive insights but an investigator, researcher of nature with pragmatic attitude (the obtaining of physical immortality), and experimental and skeptical thinker. The abundance of magic in his writings was a result of an essential character of the traditional science which included in itself magic and magical attitudes (e.g. the idea of the universal sympathies, Chinese "tong lei") not only in China but throughout the world until the time of Newton, Galileo Galilei and Descartes.

Doc

[Doc Stier]

The Supreme Jade Emperor's Embryo Breath Scripture

Translated into English by Frederic Henry Balfour, 1884

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Heavenly Lord Jade Emperor says:

The Embryo is formed by the concretion of concealed Breath; and the Embryo being brought into existence, the Breath begins to move in Respiration.

The entrance of Breath into the body is Life; the departure of the Spirit from the external form is Death.

He who understands the Spirit and the Breath may live for ever; he who rigorously maintains the Empty and Non-existent may thereby nourish the Spirit and the Breath.

When the Spirit moves the Breath moves; when Spirit is still the Breath is still.

If you desire to attain to immortality, the Spirit and the Breath must be diffused through one another.

If the Heart is perfectly devoid of thoughts -- neither going nor coming, issuing nor entering -- it will dwell permanently within of its own accord.

Be diligent in pursuing this course; for it is the true road to take.

http://free.000angels.com/libran/body/szt1.jpg

http://free.000angels.com/libran/body/szt0.jpg

************************************************** ***************

BTW, although many of the posts submitted on this thread are quite interesting and informative, they are off-topic, IMO. This thread topic is devoted to a discussion of Chinese Alchemy, not Chan Buddhism. Perhaps one of you should start a separate thread for continued discussion of that topic elsewhere.

Doc

[sanjuro_ronin]

Are you refering to "jing/semen retention" for example ?
I have heard concerns voiced by urologists and such in regards to this practice.

I guess this was missed...would still like an opinion though, please and thank you.

[Doc Stier]

sanjuro:

I can only speak of my own personal experience in training with Taoist Nei-Tan, Yoga Pranayama, Tibetan Yoga, and other advanced Chi-Kung methods, which involve regulated breathwork, breath retention formulas, breath locking methods, or other internal techniques of energy modification and control. All such practices and training methods present the very real potential for internal injury if performed incorrectly and too strenuously.

Caution is advised always, and I believe that such practices should never be attempted through self-instruction from books and so forth, but should always be learned from a competent and experienced teacher for this reason. In this way, such techniques can be safely learned and practiced without injury, and without harming overall health, but instead will serve to build inner strength and health, not demolish it.

Doc

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro:

I can only speak of my own personal experience in training with Taoist Nei-Tan practices, Yoga Pranayama practices, Tibetan Yoga, and other advanced Chi-Kung methods, which involve regulated breathwork, breath retention formulas, breath locking methods, or other internal techniques of energy modification and control. All such practices and training methods present the very real potential for internal injury if performed incorrectly and too strenuously.

Caution is advised always, and I believe that such practices should never be attempted through self-instruction from books and so forth, but should always be learned from a competent and experienced teacher for this reason.

Doc

I see, makes sense of course.
My experience with "advanced breathe work" is limited to hard qigong like the Sanchin and Sam Chin forms, and the hard/soft type of the Iron vest and Iron wire, but I have not "focused" on the IV or IW at this point.
In many types of "iron" training, such as Iron Palm, they speak of and recommend "semen retention" for the build up of chi, but from what I hear, urologists and such have issues with that.

[Doc Stier]

In many types of "iron" training, such as Iron Palm, they speak of and recommend "semen retention" for the build up of chi, but from what I hear, urologists and such have issues with that.

I think the main health concerns are mostly in regard to techniques which strive to prevent the normal ejaculation of semen during sexual climax and orgasm by forcibly attempting to retain it at that time with specific methods of muscle contraction and mental visualization. This is oftentimes much like trying to prevent urination when the urinary bladder is completely full, and the immediate need to empty the bladder is URGENT, or like trying to retain a bowel movement that demands to be evacuated IMMEDIATELY!

Thus, if semen retention techniques are practiced too often or too strenuously, there is likely to be some harmful effect or outright injury to the prostate gland and urethra, and perhaps other associated organs, as a result. But here again, it is primarily the overzealous and overstrenuous use of such methods which causes harm, not usually a more normal and moderate practice of these techniques.

Doc

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think the main health concerns are mostly in regard to techniques which strive to prevent the normal ejaculation of semen during sexual climax and orgasm by forcibly attempting to retain it at that time with specific methods of muscle contraction and mental visualization. This is oftentimes much like trying to prevent urination when the urinary bladder is completely full, and the immediate need to empty the bladder is urgent, or like trying to retain a bowel movement that demands to be evacuated IMMEDIATELY! As such, if semen retention techniques are practiced too often or too strenuously, there is likely to be some harmful effect or outright injury to the prostate gland and urethra, and perhaps other associated organs, as a result. But here again, it is primarily the overzealous and overstrenuous use of such methods which causes harm, not usually a more normal and moderate practice of these techniques.

Doc

Ah, thought so, I recall reading where, depending on ones age, there is a certain amount of time between climaxing, I think ( for example) in one's 30's that one should go 14 days between climaxes ( not no sex mind you, just no happy endings for the male ).
This had to do with the bodies ability to "replenish" the spent jing.