i hope kung fu doesnt go in this direction

[Shaolinlueb]

If you venture into the open circuits, it's all about the trickers. I don't think it's a bad thing personally. Everyone likes a little flash and dazzle. We have some trickers coming into the studio tomorrow for a Tiger Claw modeling shoot.

What's ironic about it is that the trickers steal a lot from wushu. Now, some are entering into the wushu rings, which is driving the wushu people crazy. It's parallel to how the traditionalists get all riled up when wushu competitors cross into their rings. We've had several issues with it in our Tiger Claw Elite Championship. Given the weird state of modern wushu now, with nandu and all, this has become a complex problem.

So, if the trickers are lifting their moves from wushu, can you say that kung fu has gone "in this direction"?

i'm saying its ridiculous when the guys do it. but when the women do it, its hot!

seriously, i wish some of the kung fu guys would put the energy into their forms like the karate guys do. even though its a totally different energy, i see so many kung fu people just walking through their forms.

[Pork Chop]

shes hot and she could almost kick my butt. i like.

oh man, you're not living that one down...never...

[David Jamieson]

just a bit of a screamy mcgee...

[firepalm]

The kid shown in the beginning of this thread is really not that good, this kid Matt Emig on the other hand I think has some serious skills within their genre of sport martial arts' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEsctdPAgQ

Like their Wushu counterparts these kids are performers and athletes. The two girls shown in the links on this thread (Chloe Bruce & Gemma Nguyen), as well as Matt Emig and the boy shown in beginning, they all train for 'Open Forms & Open Weapons' (aka Extreme Martial Arts / XMA / Tricks) competition pure & simple. Whether or not it meets the expectations of traditional martial artists really isn't relevant for them, much the same way as it goes for Wushu competitors. These aspects of martial arts competitions have evolved & developed their own standards and expected skills sets for winning.

Do I think they can fight? Probably not but it doesn't matter as most of them are likely not in it for that purpose. On the flipside I would say a very large percentage of Kung Fu folk can't fight & most of these kids XMA & Wushu kids have three times the speed, agility and athleticism of the average Kung Fu folk.

My two bits........

[David Jamieson]

To be fair, everyone can fight, just some aren't motivated to do so sportively or otherwise without reason.

fwiw imo it is a genre unto it's own and it's not relevant to sportive combative, self defense or leo/military techs.

[Shaolinlueb]

that matt kid, for what it was, was good. im not saying anyhting else. cause he can do stuff there i can not do. the kid has skill.

xma says they are sport martial artist. which is good. everyone thinks they can fight. they dont claim to be fighters.

[lkfmdc]

I believe the last few earthquakes that effected Japan were a direct result of generations of Okinawans rolling over in their graves in horror at this crap

Any way you want to tie a ribbon on this, it's dung, the stink is there

[Shaolinlueb]

I believe the last few earthquakes that effected Japan were a direct result of generations of Okinawans rolling over in their graves in horror at this crap

Any way you want to tie a ribbon on this, it's dung, the stink is there

but chicks with flexibility is

[sanjuro_ronin]

I believe the last few earthquakes that effected Japan were a direct result of generations of Okinawans rolling over in their graves in horror at this crap

Any way you want to tie a ribbon on this, it's dung, the stink is there

Here, here.
Though there are some in okinawa that are just as bad, they have all but eliminated fighting from their schools.
Sad state of affairs.

[RonH]

With all the excessive spinning these people are doing, I hope they're doing it with an empty stomach. Or did they just OD on motion sickness pills? I couldn't even watch the 2nd one after a few seconds.

The first one suffers from a sever lack of a very basic training principle: learn how to move your uniform without using your hands. How many people here, when doing endurance training, has come upon the problem of cloth slippage, while holding a particular stance, raise your hands. It's happened to me. In a street fight or solo competition, do you really want to be adjusting your clothes when you've got more important issues to worry about? Come on. Even in solo competition, when performing a routine that you yourself are to have created, make the adjustment move sans hands part of the routine. A shoulder shrug or step out and move into a low stance, while you throw your arms down to your sides hard and at an angle, at the very least. It might not look that great, but at least you won't be known as 'the guy that adjusted his gi with his hands in the middle of his set'. We all remember that skip from the video not too long ago that actually had the use of kicking sand.

At this point in writing this post, I've even forgotten what the 3rd video was. I think it's the refinement of exaggerations that that's where KF started the downfall. I blame it on sport wushu and those other groups that started making kung fu a performance piece for the oooooos and aaaahhss.

[Scott R. Brown]

That being said, those slow spins with one foot up my her head were very cool; no way in he!! I could pull that off.

This is going to so weird and unbelievable I know, and I CAN'T prove this to anyone because I have no photographic proof, but not only could I do that when I was 20 years old (28 years ago) but I could do it standing ONLY on tip of my big toe.

I am not lying or exaggerating. (Not the spins on one toe, the leg up high on one toe, holding for time) The spins are easy though once you can do the leg.

[yutyeesam]

but it seems like it has with all the new wushu crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M91D7643ItM

so awful. you can see my comment on the bottom.

I think this XMA fad is pretty much done, in that being all the rage. Things that tend to be all style with very little substance come and go really fast.

Kung-Fu's problem is not how will it blend with the XMA world. Kung-Fu's problem is how will it blend with the MMA world.

-123

[Becca]

I am not lying or exaggerating. (Not the spins on one toe, the leg up high on one toe, holding for time) The spins are easy though once you can do the leg.

I beleive you. I can spin on one foot with the other up, but my knee has to be bent and no higher than my waist. But up my the ear? I just don't bend that way.

[GeneChing]

For Kung fu to thrive, it needs to be more open minded on all levels. Most so-called traditionalists pooh pooh performance martial arts, which is really ironic. It shows a fundamental ignorance of our tradition. TCMA has had a connection to performance-based forms for centuries. Look at the jianghu, who performed on the streets. They did stunts and tricks, albeit not as sophisticated as we do now. Look even further back to the sword dances that were performed for the emperors. Sword dances are some of our earliest documentations of martial demonstrations.

To be open minded, we need to be open minded on all levels. We need to embrace MMA. We need to embrace trickers. That doesn't mean that we all need to do MMA or tricking, but it does mean that we shouldn't be critical. These trickers are out there doing there thing. That's fine. It's great entertainment. MMA is great entertainment too. Personally, that's how I view both of them. I'm neither an MMA practitioner (at least not in the current definition of the term) nor a tricker. I'm not going to bash others who chose that path. Some one has to go out an entertain the masses.

[B-Rad]

i hope kung fu doesnt go in this direction
but it seems like it has with all the new wushu crap.

If kungfu guys don't like forms competition, then don't compete. Whether you're doing gymnastics or not, either way you're getting a subjective score based on performance rather than fighting. Forms competition and performing is fun, but it's not the goal for most anyone in kungfu for the long term. Even a lot of wushu guys go back to traditional when they're older.

Judges also need to have good eyes and not reward things like back flips or acrobatics in traditional divisions. I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing in a back flip or something if the rest of the form is good technique, but I don't think there should be extra points offsetting bad technique. If it's something like musical extreme martial arts katas, who cares? It's purely entertainment.

Kungfu guys have been doing tricks for years... look at Wah Lum and the LKH CLF schools. Or that mantis chain whip video with the aerial and butt hopping. Or even old pictures I've seen of kungfu guys doing spear against throat "qigong" tricks, sword swallowing, or lion dancing I don't really think it's hurt anything. I have a much easier time finding good kungfu now days than I did 10 years ago, despite the popularity of XMA and the nandu changes emphasis in today's modern wushu competition.