i hope kung fu doesnt go in this direction

[Shaolinlueb]

i like jimmy wong and his students are good kids.
personally i have always like the performing part of kung fu. i have just recently gotten back into the fighting part. i mean seriously, when are you ever going to use the fighting?

[MasterKiller]

. i mean seriously, when are you ever going to use the fighting?

If you step into the cage, you'll have plenty of opportunity.

[Becca]

I have to say, I think what one chooses to teach inside their own school is their own business. And it is also their own business what they choose to call it, how they came up with it, ect... That's not to say they aren't open to criticism if they take their stuff out into public. But think of it this way: If they are getting John Q. Public to pay attention, it might be more beneficial to be there to catch those disillusioned by the charlatans that to spend all energy bashing the charlatans. Those who had bad experiences will be more likely to walk in your door if they are not getting a deluge of negative energy from you.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have to say, I think what one chooses to teach inside their own school is their own business. And it is also their own business what they choose to call it, how they came up with it, ect... That's not to say they aren't open to criticism if they take their stuff out into public. But think of it this way: If they are getting John Q. Public to pay attention, it might be more beneficial to be there to catch those disillusioned by the charlatans that to spend all energy bashing the charlatans. Those who had bad experiences will be more likely to walk in your door if they are not getting a deluge of negative energy from you.

Buyer beware eh?

[Shaolinlueb]

If you step into the cage, you'll have plenty of opportunity.

the only cage i enter is the kumita, but those are hidden tournaments only the best fighters know about. so you have to trust me when i tell you i win.

[Becca]

Buyer beware eh?

It's called capitalism. It ain't perfect, but it tends to work a bit better than strict regulation when the industry is artistic based and harder to set uniform standards for. A wise honest school or gym owner would capitalize on less savory schools’ drop-outs. They’ve already seen the bad and will know what they are getting. But after however long of bad teaching/bad atmosphere, the last thing they are going to do is be receptive to a negatively talking owner/instructor of a school they are considering…

[GeneChing]

Tradition should always be venerated because it's been there and done that, but it's a term that most martial artists bandy about ignorantly. It's used to bash others, either as being inauthentic or obsolete. The truth is that the value of traditional lies within its archived experience. People get all worked up about Cosplay and LARPers, which is a bit of red herring here since we started discussing trickers (trickers have kung fu in the literal sense - it may not be 'martial' but it's definitely 'skill acquired by hard work over time' - cosplay and larpers just know where to shop ). I suppose they both have their performance aspect, so we'll address them both. When I say performance has been with our tradition for centuries, I don't intend to assign a positive or negative message there. It's more of an observation. There are always people who will take either side of the argument and logically, there have always been. It's totally akin to the latest MMA debates. MMA has been with us forever too. It's just never been promoted to the level it is now, probably because the media wasn't available (and partially due to the cultural climate in our country now - that's actually the biggest issue I have with MMA, but that's totally OT here). We're all familiar with lkfmdc's stance on what he deems isn't real.

Has TCMA always been associated with perfromance? YES, of course it has. It has also always been associated with cheap magic tricks, deception, fraud and cons. IE just because something is part of the tradition doesn't mean we should automatically embrace it as positive

Speaking as a disciple of someone who DID make a living performing on the street (ie CTS), I can tell you pretty much all the things they did were "tricks" (ie no functional martial application) and they lived off the ignorance of their audience , who despite being CHinese knew as much about TCMA as the average American does today

Many of us share this opinion. But think about it. If our martial forefathers lived with this for centuries, even participated in it, why should it end now? We can ***** all we like on the forum about trickers, larpers and cosplay, but the reality is that they view themselves as part of the martial community and the rest of the world views them as part of the martial community. Who are we to say they aren't? And to what end? Do you really think you can put an end to everything you don't perceive as real? Our forefathers couldn't. You can talk all you want about this being the age of science, but the science is really media manipulation of the public perception. We can warn the rookies, say, 'do it my way, I got the real stuff, that other guy is fake,' but the fakes will say the same thing, and it gets very confusing for beginners. They really need to find their own way. I'd be worried if I was an 'authentic' school owner and a cosplay school opened up across the street and stole all my students. It's the indignity of the position - the personal offense that many take at those they perceive as not to be practicing the real stuff. Why even bother to compare? It'll just give you indigestion. To quote Henry David Thoreau "We will be rich in proportion to the number of things we can afford to let alone."

What CMA really needs now is diversity. It's that diversity that will guarantee it's survival. I firmly support CMA people going into MMA. I support CMA people tricking and dressing up (well, that's mostly because our company sells uniforms, but we won't dwell on that ). I support all CMA. It's how I make my living. I'm a professional CMA supporter.

Alright, Dave, I'm ready for my cooked up photoshop close up now.

[bodhitree]

how I make my living. I'm a professional CMA supporter.

Official Shaolin Taco Time not doing so well? You're so industrious!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think that, people with a cultural "stake" in MA, any MA, will be more accepting of things "non-martial" in a system than those of us that feel the MA is Martial first and anything else second.

[MasterKiller]

I'm a professional CMA supporter.

As opposed to LKFMDC, who as a fighter coach is a professional athletic supporter.

[golden arhat]

american football is for pussies you should play rugby instead.

truer words have never been spoken

[sanjuro_ronin]

As opposed to LKFMDC, who as a fighter coach is a professional athletic supporter.

he gets paid to be a jock strap ??

[lkfmdc]

But think about it. If our martial forefathers lived with this for centuries, even participated in it, why should it end now?

Things our foretathers lives with, even participated in

1. Witch trials
2. The crusades
3. The inquisition
4. Calling Capurnicus and Gallelo heretics for saying the sun is the center of the universe (may have spelled names wrong, sure you know who they are though)
5. Infanticide
6. Female circumcision

This is, regretably, just a short list of the nasty things that previous generations accepted, participated in and even supported as "correct"

[sanjuro_ronin]

Things our foretathers lives with, even participated in

1. Witch trials
2. The crusades
3. The inquisition
4. Calling Capurnicus and Gallelo heretics for saying the sun is the center of the universe (may have spelled names wrong, sure you know who they are though)
5. Infanticide
6. Female circumcision

This is, regretably, just a short list of the nasty things that previous generations accepted, participated in and even supported as "correct"

Don't forget the orgies filled with debachery, sex and organic food !
**** Caligula DVD.

[GeneChing]

I'd say most of those things are still with us, except maybe the Copernicus and Galileo heretics. Then again.... Still, it's a bit excessive to compare a CMA Cosplayer to female circumcision. The funny thing is that I've been batting around the idea of doing a feature on Cosplay. I'm totally serious. It may be hard not to digress into furries, but I'll try to restrain myself

Funny thing about Shaolin Taco Time - I remember this old woman who used to sell these pseudo-burrito-like things out of these double oil cans she had slung over a wooden yoke and carried about town. The tortilla was more like those mushu pancakes but way bigger and freshly handmade. She had those in one oil can and in the other, there was minced mystery meat (I'm guessing badger) vegetables and a mess of those fiery indigenous peppers they eat at Shaolin, freaking firebombs in the shape of tiny innocent green balls. Anyway, I wouldn't want to cut in on that old lady's burrito business with my tacos. However, no one has brought nachos to Shaolin yet, so perhaps I still have a calling...