Knife fighting

[stonecrusher69]

I like to ask a question about defending against knife attacks. Which is the best and most realistic way to learn how to defend against a knife attack.What methods and or systems do you feels deals with knife attactks in a real way?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Google STAB and the guys at centerline gym have a good one too, called red Zone.
Simple and effective.

If you wanna take up a MA system for that, then its all depends on what you have in your area.

Going against a knife means:
You will get cut, it will hurt and realize that it could mean your life.

[BaguaGoblin]

While you're at it Google stab images. That'll give you a wake-up call.

[Chosen-frozen]

Before trying to defend against a weapon, learn to use the weapon. Your best bet might be to look for some instruction in Fillipino or Indonesian MA.

I`ve been hearing lots of good things about a training program called "Die less often" promoted by the Dog Brothers group. I haven`t seen it personally because it`s not available here in Japan yet, but I really respect the opinions of the people I know who`ve trained it. Check out www.dogbrothers.com or try www.bladeforums.com (Goto the "Practical tactical" forum in the training section) to get some input from people who specialize in this kind of thing. (Several LEOs and COs frequent that area.)

Sorry, I get jargony sometimes.LEO= Law Enforcement Officers, CO= Corrections Officers

[Chosen-frozen]

As far as being realistic goes, training helps but your best bet is awareness of where you are and who`s around you, and not looking like like an easy target (ie: one that doesn`t pay attention).

According to the FBI`s uniform crime reports (sorry the last one I have is 2005) someone is stabbed or cut up in the US every 2 minutes. Anyone who knows what they`re doing won`t let you see the knife until after you`re cut, and most stabbing victims say they didn`t realised they`d been stabbed `til later. They thought they were being punched.

Defending against a blade means you WILL get cut, you`re just doing damage control. I`v had to do it twice. Once was flawless and looked like it came right out of MA school`s commercial. (Just sign up for Master so-and-so`s 8 week course and you too can knock bullets out of the air with your Iron Crotch!) The second time the guy was just playing and still cut me bad. If I ever have to do it a third time I`m just gonna throw anything and everthing I can get my hands on. It only takes one cut nerve to paralyse an arm for life....if you don`t get killed.

[SanSoo Student]

Defending against a blade means you WILL get cut, you`re just doing damage control. I`v had to do it twice.If I ever have to do it a third time I`m just gonna throw anything and everthing I can get my hands on. It only takes one cut nerve to paralyse an arm for life....if you don`t get killed.

I agree with everything he said and again the best way "to defend" is shoot inside and hope you don't get cut too badly.

[bodhitree]

knifefighting is something I know nothing about.

One FMAist told me if you have to take the cut/shield up make sure to expose the outside of your arms, less veins/arteries to be cut. I wish I had time to take up some knife stuff....


too bad

[sanjuro_ronin]

knifefighting is something I know nothing about.

One FMAist told me if you have to take the cut/shield up make sure to expose the outside of your arms, less veins/arteries to be cut. I wish I had time to take up some knife stuff....


too bad

An "old school" method that even shows up in a few novels, never been a big fan of it, but it is a "last ditch" type of thing:
If you are right handed, the left arm (outside facing attacker) is raise as if you are carrying an invisible shield and the right (armed) hand is back near your chin, as the attacker slashes ( non-commited attackes) you drive in, take the "minor cut" on the shield arm and drive the knife into the heart or throat.

Not my cup-of-tea.

[BaguaGoblin]

Taiji and Bagua perspectives on knife defense...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPP2aJFFPvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-uH93EQzKs

Personally I prefer the school of thought of keeping as much distance between you and that knife as possible. And I think there is something to be said about what you are familiar with. You may not be comfortable or ingrained with the same movements as someone from a different style. These guys have different abilities with footwork than others. Don't block a bullet with your crotch if you haven't trained iron crotch or modernized kevlar crotch.

[Soo Ma Tai]

Get some weapons that can be used full contact, such as those available at edhellen.com and beat the crud out of each other. I can only tell you from personal experience that using your techniques in a full speed, live combat environment, is the only way to be competent enough to use them on the street.

[TaichiMantis]

Personally I prefer the school of thought of keeping as much distance between you and that knife as possible.

I agree. And laugh all you want about Jackie Chan movies and moves, but there is something to be said about being aware of your environment and coming up with creative weapons from your surroundings.

A coat, stick, rake, broom, tire iron, rope, umbrella, purse, briefcase,dirt....

[Shaolin Wookie]

I heard from my cousin (Army infantry), that the best way to defend a knife unarmed is to, if you can, quickly yank off your overshirt or jacket while keeping distance, and wrap it around your left hand or arm (if you're righthanded), and use it to defend, if you have to, while using the right to attack and disarm.

Sounds smart to me, but you'd have to have the time and space to make distance. But he also said you'd get stabbed before you realized they had the knife. And he's done specialized combat knife classes, so I figure he knows better than I.

[hafoc]

An "old school" method that even shows up in a few novels, never been a big fan of it, but it is a "last ditch" type of thing:
If you are right handed, the left arm (outside facing attacker) is raise as if you are carrying an invisible shield and the right (armed) hand is back near your chin, as the attacker slashes ( non-commited attackes) you drive in, take the "minor cut" on the shield arm and drive the knife into the heart or throat.

Not my cup-of-tea.

In some circles this is called the prison rush. You don't do it against somebody who's armed. You do it against the unarmed.

[hafoc]

I heard from my cousin (Army infantry), that the best way to defend a knife unarmed is to, if you can, quickly yank off your overshirt or jacket while keeping distance, and wrap it around your left hand or arm (if you're righthanded), and use it to defend, if you have to, while using the right to attack and disarm.

Sounds smart to me, but you'd have to have the time and space to make distance. But he also said you'd get stabbed before you realized they had the knife. And he's done specialized combat knife classes, so I figure he knows better than I.

If cops don't have time to get their firearms out of the holster in time to meet a knife attacker, then I think most folks don't have time to shuck their shirts.

[hafoc]

I like to ask a question about defending against knife attacks. Which is the best and most realistic way to learn how to defend against a knife attack.What methods and or systems do you feels deals with knife attactks in a real way?

There are in fact some good manuals on knife defense written by guys who actually had to face the possibility of defending against short edged weapons. You can find some of this stuff on the web, others are in published book form. The interesting thing is that the material is 500-600 years old.

On the web, see: http://www.the-exiles.org/FioreProject/Project.htm (Flos Duellotorum, written in 1409 in Italy by Fiore de Liberi).

Others are:

Cynner, Hans. Untitled. www.thearma.org (15th century treatise)

Durer, Albrecht. Albrecht Durers Fechtbuch (Friedrich Dornhoffer, ed.).

Lignitzer, Andreas. Mike Rasmusson transl. MS 1449, the Danzig Fechbuch. www.schielhau.org/ligniter-dagger.html.

Meyer, Joachim. Kunst des Fechtens (Germany, 1570), Jeffrey Forgeng transl.

Talhoffer, Hans. Medieval Combat, Mark Rector transl. (Mechanicsburg, PA: Greenhill Books, 2000).

A modern interpretation of some of these sources is "Medieval and Renaissance Dagger Combat," Jason Vail, Paladin Press 2006.

Interestingly these techniques are virtually identical to what you can find in chin-na.