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Thread: WHERE DID "ABSORB WHAT IS USEFUL & REJECT WHAT IS USELESS "COME FROM?

  1. #1
    Guest

    WHERE DID "ABSORB WHAT IS USEFUL & REJECT WHAT IS USELESS "COME FROM?

    If BL never stated such a thing (IN 6000 PAGE'S OF PERSONAL NOTE'S) where did it come from?

    I'm just asking if anyone of you know who started this quote & why?

    PEACE LESTAT33


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    LESTAT 33

    [This message has been edited by LESTAT33 (edited 01-31-2000).]

  2. #2
    Guest
    I heard it came from Dan Inosanto, but I can not say for sure. I do think it sums up JKD pretty well.-ED

  3. #3
    Guest
    It came from a philosophy book Bruce had. Guro Inosanto talks about it in an interview. When I sort all this junk out here I'll probably come across the interview & give you more info.

    YODA


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    "No - try not.
    Do - or do not.
    There is no try."

  4. #4
    Ian Brewster Guest
    Dear guys,

    If I remeber correctly that quote did not come from Bruce or Dan although they both use it....I believe that came from Khrisnamurti (Teacher of Depac Chopra) who bruce Lee coined alot of sayings from...like think on these things (which is actually the name of one Big Ks books)...

    If you really want to know where Bruce got alot of his Philosophies from then read the works of Khrisnamurti and his peers....

    But I am 90% sure that "Absorb what is usefull....." came from him.


    Ian B.

  5. #5
    Guest
    Ok now that we know it came from a philosophy book that BL had. I would like to know if it was Bruce or Dan who made this statement a part of JKD?

    But most importently WHY?
    The reason why I'm asking this question is because the way I have come to understand this statement.

    Which tells me that one has to continue to grow as an individual even if he resorts to adding other system's to his JKD.


    Just as long as he remembers that he has to chip away at what he has added as well as chip away at what he already know's!
    The way I see it this is the only way one can say that he is truly doing JKD & by doing so one should be able to express himself completely.

    In short I would like to use another statement that is used in JKD which is using no way as a way & having no limitation as a limitation now if this is what BL was trying to say. Then why so many of the JKD INSTRUCTORS that are out
    there today have chosen to use BRUCE LEE'S way as there way.

    Rather then seeking there own PERSONAL
    approach to there JKD.

    What I'm trying to say here for those of you who may have lost me/or the point that I'm trying to make here is that JKD'S essence is supposed to be based on one's PERSONALIZATION as one believe's it to be.

    I mean after all this is what BRUCE LEE did himself & in doing so gave us his own PERSONALIZATION of what he believed his JKD to be at the time.

    I mean all you have to do is look at what BL said about JKD which is JKD is like a circle with out a circumfrence meaning?

    It should alway's continue to evolve no matter what, after all a circle has no ending.

    What do you think?

    PEACE LESTAT33


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    LESTAT 33

    [This message has been edited by LESTAT33 (edited 01-31-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by LESTAT33 (edited 02-01-2000).]

  6. #6
    Guest
    Look at it this way, isn't it easier if you are hiking to follow a trail already made instead of having to blaze one yourself? Now I do not agree with locking oneself to a set pattern or way so a person has to be careful. What I like to think is that there is no one way, concept or rule in JKD that can not be broken or that does not have a exception. Eventually of course you will have to make your own path, following Bruce's path in the beginning though at least keeps you from getting lost and keeps you pointed in the right direction.-ED

  7. #7
    Ian Brewster Guest
    Think of it this way....

    Bruce didn't tell us what mountain or path to hike on...he gave us the tools to go hiking, the compass, the tent, the matches, fishing line etc.

    Bruce (as he likes to say) is a finger pointing at the moon.

    people who doing everything Bruce did and call it JKD are way way way way way out in left field.

    Bruce borrowed concepts and techniques from everybody and every art...

    JKD is about the process not the product....

    When Lee said chip away at the non essentials it fell perfectly in line with "absorb what is usefull reject what is useless"...

    he you check out kali, hmmmm some good stuff in it and some crappy stuff in it...absorb the good get rid of the crappy and adapt the good specifcally to your way....end of story....

    Many of the classical JKD guys have never rolled on the ground with a Rickson Gracie or duked it out with sticks against a Angel Cabales if they did things would be alot different....

    Bruce Lee is your high school english teacher...

    He taught you how to form words, use proper grammar and punctuate correctly. With that knowledge you can write everything from poetry to drama, science fiction to a dictonary.....

    Hope that helps....


    Ian

  8. #8
    Guest
    Ian:
    I'm glad that we see eye to eye on this & by the way hell of a point you made there with Gracie & Kali.

    I look forward to talking with you as well as any other's on JKD & how they feel about it.

    PEACE LESTAT33


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    LESTAT 33


  9. #9
    Ian Brewster Guest
    Lestat,

    check out my web site www.urbancombat.com

    e-mail me at Brewster@Sprint.ca

    take care,
    IB

  10. #10
    Guest
    Ian. I agree with your post, but I read something strange on your web site. I'm not sure if I understood correctly though.

    4) Your training should be alive. No dead patterns, katas, forms,
    traditions or any training which does not build functional attributes
    and qualities.

    Do you mean all forms? If you do, then what do you think forms are meant to do? Build functions attributes like speed, power, stanima, flow concepts, and strength except you don't need to do an exercise for each because it's all contained in one form.

    Liken a form to bag work and shadow boxing. Bag work and shadow boxing will build speed, power, stanima, flow, and some strength. Forms do the same thing. Obviously you won't use a form when you are attacked on the street, but how many times have you been atttacked by a heavy bag? They are both viable training methods for the specific reason that they build functional attributes.

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  11. #11
    Ian Brewster Guest
    Dear Seeker,

    Point 1: Thanks for dropping by my site, it is appreacited...

    Point 2: If were are referring to forms (as in another word for Kata)...they do not make you a functional fighter...

    Sparring and realistic drilling make you a better fighter (we are taking in the realm of self defense and street assualts here)....

    Punching or kicking air in specific patterns does not give you the attributes you need to fight against a reall attacker.

    Let's say for the sake of argument you do karate....I taught you some basic punches and kicks and said i want you to do forms for
    a year....I took another guy taught him basic punches and kicks and had him spar 8 rounds every 2 or three days for 3 months...who do you think would win if I would sqaure you two off....

    Forms DO NOT simulate real combat. Now I agree neither does a bag....but the bag gives you more resistance than the air ever will. If you don't have a partner to pratice alive drills against then you have to resort to a heavy bag until some one shows up....

    Go to any boxing gym or muay thai gym, you see them doing forms....how many karate forms guys or kung fu forms guys could stand up against a good thai boxer...very very few if any....

    Forma and kata look great but they are self-perfection...not self-preservation...


    In the realm of martial arts the art is in the performance and the combining of attributes.....

    Think UFC....you think Frank Shamrock, Royce Gracie, Ruas, Ruttan, Rizo, Belfor or any of those guys got good from doing forms? They good by doing fucntional drills, by rolling around on the mat, working their endurance on the thai bag, countless hours of sparring etc.

    That's how Bruce did it....that's how the best fighters do it. Tough is how you train not how you act.....

    Conclusion if you can't realte an element of your training to actual fighting situation then it's a waste of time (in the context of self preservation)

    sorry to ramble, hope that helps....

    Ian B.

  12. #12
    Guest
    This may sound like a rant, but your views are just confusing. Saying that forms do not make you a functional fighter is the same thing as saying that hitting a heavy bag, shadow boxing, focus mitts, jogging, and jumping rope don't aid your fighting ability. Forms cover all those areas! They are not meant as a substitute for sparring. To believe that forms are meant for more than training and conditioning tools is a bit ignorant of the classical martial arts. Forms with sparring is the same thing as heavy bag drills, jumping rope, and sparring. You see what I mean?

  13. #13
    Guest
    Oh, BTW, I boxed competitively for 3 years, so I can relate to that type of training as well. I've been to at least a dozen boxing gyms and competed in 11 tournaments. I fairly familiar with the types of conditioning boxers undergo. However, I can see the merit in both types of conditioning exercises.

    [This message has been edited by Seeker (edited 02-02-2000).]

  14. #14
    Ian Brewster Guest
    Dear Seeker,

    I to enjoy boxing (looks like we have something in common)....

    If forms does help your martial arts then "absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is specifcially your own, then walk on...."

    In my experience in helping others train and in my training and in just talking to and training with other JKD boys (Concepts and Original) they all seem to feel the way I do...

    I personally do shadow boxing because I like it and it's a good relaxer for me, I work the bag to work endurance and maybe refine my technqiue...that is when their is no one else available....it may help my training but in a very minimal sense to me.

    For me and quite a few others where it's at is partner drills against an alive uncooperative opponents....no amount of air punching (shadow boxing or kata) will build attributes the way that does....

    The closer your training simulates a fight the better a fighter you shall become....

    If you want to look at what is more productive I would say.....(from a boxing stand point only)

    -Forms and Kata work few attributes (in my opinion
    -Shadow boxing
    -bag work
    -Sparring

    Forms don't simulate a fight so they don't simulate the functional attributes you need to be a functional fighter....

    your drills must come as close as can be to what happens ina fight...if they don't you are only cheating yourself.....

    Bruce Lee did forms (don't let anyone tell you otherwise) but Bruce didn't think it improved his functional attributes...he just liked then and it helped him relax....

    I do Simbrada in the air (stick drill) does it make me a better fighter or build attributes...not really....I do enjoy it....
    it's self perfection....

    I have seen Aikdo locking kata does that make them better fighters no.

    Katas for me and for most JKD guys are what Bruce used to call dry land swimming....

    But if it works for you and it makes you a better fighter then guy I'll be the first to say to hell with every body else....do it man.


    Ian B.


  15. #15
    Guest
    Ian,

    I see where your coming from, but it is this ignorance of the purpose of a form that is the problem. Forms don't and were never meant to be a substitute for sparring. The are meant to refine technique, build strength, endurance, and speed, etc. I'm not saying that it will make you "fucntional fighter" in the place of sparring. Anyone who tells you that is full of it. Trust me, every single style of kung fu has two-man drills and spars. However without refinement of technique on your own, your technique will be sloppy. If you try to learn everything against a live, uncooperating opponent, then you will take short-cuts to make yourself more effective. These short-cuts work great in the short run, but will stunt your development in the long run. It will, in fact, be a deficiency in your technique that a more technically effecient fighter can take advantage of. This has been shown time and time again.

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