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Thread: Way of the Intercepting Fist..

  1. #1
    nospam Guest

    Way of the Intercepting Fist..

    Hello.

    Would those who practise Jeet Kune Do please answer me this, do you consider your martial art to be 'kung fu'? And why? or why not?

    Thanks.

    Only serious answers need reply.

  2. #2
    GinSueDog Guest
    Nospam,
    I don't consider Jeet Kune Do to be Kung Fu, I do believe that some techniques and concepts that have become apart of my training to have it's roots in Kung Fu or have been directly taken from Kung Fu. I will not rule out techniques or theories that come directly from Kung Fu until I see and try first hand how effective they really are. I basically try to stay away from labelling as much as possible as it sometimes creates a basis. In fact my biggest concern with the way JKD is developing is that I am starting to see many people within JKD that are not trying techniques out first hand to judge for themselves whether it is economical and effective but are taking another's word on whether it works or not. In other cases they assume that just because it is from a combative sports art that it must be effective in any environment or situation or that just because it is from Kung Fu it must be ineffective. Anyways back to your question, if I were to call JKD Kung Fu I would be in my mind setting a limit to what JKD could become for me. The only label I would give JKD is scientific fighting based on economic movement, maybe that is why so many JKD guys like BJJ so much.-ED

  3. #3
    nospam Guest
    Very interesting.

    Good points. So, by the sounds of it, you believe kung fu is limiting and not that economical...maybe because most kung fu styles are rooted in the traditional where at times movements (techniques) look useless or outdated?

    And by this thought, if I am indeed correct, then an average JKD stylist should be more effective vs an average kung fu stylist. I don't say this to present another excuse to start arguing over whose martial art is better, but as a measure of effectiveness from say...beginner to intermediate level of ability.

    I know for many, and I include myself into this fold, that kung fu takes that much longer to learn because the movements do not become 'economical' until the latter stages of intermediate level to the advanced level of ability.

    I wonder...is or was JKD a method used to extract the 'Chinesism' or culture from a fighting system? By this, I mean the traditional methods of learning and customs inherent to many a kung fu teacher. The term 'economical' can pertain to more than just the 'physical' movement of a martial art.

  4. #4
    GinSueDog Guest
    Nospam,
    In JKD one of the primary concepts is to have simplistic, economical movement without telegraphing. I see as one of the reasons why many JKD people perfer looking into systems like Muay Thai, Boxing, Savate is that they are easier to incorporate into JKD because many of there techniques already follow this first basic principle. The whole idea is that you can not block what you can not see. I do not assume that Kung Fu techniques are useless or outdated I perferr to judge for myself on an individual basis whether a certain technique will work or not. A lot of JKD is based on Physics and economy of motion, I think where many see the difference between JKD and Traditional Kung Fu is that Kung Fu is based more on Mystic beliefs then in physical science. I am not saying that this is true as my understanding of Kung Fu is limited but it is the impression that I get.-ED

  5. #5
    nospam Guest
    "..is that Kung Fu is based more on Mystic beliefs then in physical science."

    Wow.

    Then again, for many..you're not far off. I am curious though as to where this impression was begotten, Grasshopper?

    GinSueDog, I appreciate your candor.


  6. #6
    GinSueDog Guest
    Nospam,
    To be honest I feel a lot of what has made Kung Fu popular has also hurt it. IMHO, the very Hong Kong movies that has made Kung Fu a house hold name has also hurt it with it's wire tricks and unrealistic fight scenes. I know tht they are only movies but for many that is there only exposure to Kung Fu. Also there is the belief that most Kung Fu artist do not do live training and instead practice there hidden deadly techniques through forms does not help much either. I am not saying I agree or disagree with any of this, only that this is my impression and I do not mean any insult.-ED

  7. #7
    nospam Guest
    ..heh heh..

    That's alright GinSueDog, no insult taken, and we're all intitled to our opinions. The one point I wanted to *ouch* ****. Excuse me for a second. ****ed wires. *snap* There, I just took the harness totally off...much better. Now, as I was saying GinSueDog, we're all entitled [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    I hear what you're saying, and there are a lot of movie-art schools out there for sure. Kung fu has taken on a bad rap (whether deservedly or not is debatable), and with a high majority of kung fu schools churning out kickboxers...oh well, back on track with my original question.

    I believe I have a better appreciation about how JKDers look at their art from GinSueDog's posts. Yours is a fluid, quick and 'real' type of hit 'em hard and hit 'em fast, no-nonsense martial art that utilizes a plethora of techniques and principles of combat that are clearly applicable. Albeit, and I might be off here...bears some structure resemblence to Wing Chun Kung Fu.

  8. #8
    GinSueDog Guest
    Nospam,
    Yes at it's core, JKD has deep roots within Wing Chun as it was one of the founding styles incorporated by Bruce Lee. It has slowly become more theory then technique in the JKD Concepts branch then in the Jun Fan JKD branch. But if you look in either you will see many principles and concepts taken from Wing Chun Kung Fu.-ED

  9. #9
    Anubis Guest
    JKD is like all other martial arts originated from kung fu...however kung fu is limited and to formal JKD is more like street fighting...instead of go up over and aroud one would go straight to the core. Its faster and more effective.

  10. #10
    Kung Lek Guest
    Hello-

    Anubis-

    If wing chun comes form Kung fu and JKD is rooted primarily in wing chun, then how is it you see Kung fu as "limited".

    By the above logic, it would be jkd that is limited even though the practitioner of it is not.

    JKD has been talking about being without form for some time. In fact since its inception this has been a part of it.
    Yet, these days there are many who would "systematize" JKD.

    JKD in essence is "all" martial arts practiced by all martial artists who do not stay within the confines of a singular system.

    My Kung Fu skills give me the ability to use JKD.
    JKD in itself contributes nothing to my Kung fu study.

    The concept behind JKD to my understanding is
    to not allow yourself to get locked into a mindset that states because something purportedly works in theory and for your instructor means tat it must work for you.

    By not allowing yourself to be pigeonholed into this thinking that all is written in stone and this techniques must be applied this way opens the door to you adapting techniques so that they suit who you are and are applicable and clean.

    The "classical" mess was the fact that there are so many systems and that it atkes time to find the right system for the right body type, whereas the jkd concept is, "what will work for anyone no matter who they are or what their body type is"

    Of course this would be a relitavely small circle of techniques and applications.

    At Shaolin Temple the same idea was adapted for the temple gate guards. It was they who were taught the art of
    "splashing hands" splashing hands was the fighting art of shaolin that distilled the readily usable techniques and taught them effectively in a short period of time.

    This art was later disseminated further and it is likely that this particular system became Wing Chun which in turn Bruce added what he knew of it to some american boxing, fencing and wrestling to become JKD.

    All JKD teachers teach JKD differently and from their own experience and points of reference.
    So, it is not a system, it is an individuals distillation of the most effective techniques and applications from systems they were already aware of and practitioners of.

    Burton Richardsons jkd is different from Inosantos and those are different from Vunaks' jkd and so on.

    However, each and everyone of the best jkd instructors come from another martial background.

    JKD, it works for the seasoned martial artist but it is mystifying to the ma beginner with no background arts to relate it to.

    Peace

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