What do you guys think of these apps?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2GFA...elated&search=

[jigahus]

I admit I don't know much about Kung Fu, but it looks like simple Chin Na apps. Some may work. Some may not. My 2 cents.

[boshea]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2GFA...elated&search=

I'm sure they work great, if someone walks up and grabs your wrist!

In fairness not all of them were defenses against wrist-grabs, but there seemed to be a pretty strong emphasis on responding to that type of attack.

[banditshaw]

I'd Like To See Him Do Them Against Full Resistance And Getting Punched At The Same Time.

[jet64]

Its so slow, its not gonna work on foreign opponent. its just to practice useless drills.

attackers wont go for your wrist, that bs.

IMHO

[TenTigers]

basic, I agree with the overemphasis on wrist grabs. I learned a ton of defenses against wrist grabs, and I have never had anyone grab my wrists. They are simply a learning tool, but it is better to work off a grab and punch.
I am also not a fan of striking, or stripping the hand that grabs you, THEN doing your technique. Simply striking with the free hand saves a step, and facilitates the follow ups. Speaking of follow-ups, he had none. He did some fancy stuff to the guy's wrist after the armbar, but when and why would yuo ever do such a thing? If you have the person in position, hit him! In my school,we use strikes to set up jointlocks,(breaks) to set up strikes. The lock puts yuor opponent in position to follow up at will. BTW-breaking is a follow up as well.
Also, the locking of the wrist against his chest was cool-looking, but I would never rely on it in a fight, where the attacker is moving, resisting (key word, here) and trying to hurt you. It is great at parties, impressing your friends, and maybe your students, but that's about it.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think joint locks are good for people in jobs where they need to restrain and immobilize the suspect to cuff them and make the arrest.

In cases like that you are often not dealing with someone attacking, but more trying to get away from you.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Its so slow, its not gonna work on foreign opponent. its just to practice useless drills.

attackers wont go for your wrist, that bs.

IMHO

Maybe they're cons with long records, and they're practicing like they've got a brick of hash in their back pocket. If a cop grabs your wrist to apply the cuffs.....you've got him, man!

[David Jamieson]

arm hanger training is 100% inneffective for learning martial art.

while the apps may be fine, they will not be correctly developed in the way they are showing the practice in the video.

[Bruce W Sims]

Ah.. I don't mean to discount a good discussion. I only want to point out that the clip is a good example of what happens when someone takes material from another art and represents it as something else. Please allow me to take this a step at a time.

1.) The material being demonstrated is not CHIN NA. The hand placement, use of vectors and poor/inexact grip is nothing that would get by any competent CHIN NA teacher (See: YANG Jwing-ming).

2.) The circles are far too large to be any sort of combat material. My best guess is that said instructor has had some experience in a commercial school or in Aikido where efforts are made to de-localize the technique so as to spread authority ibn the technique over a wider range. (Also notice that the material does not go far beyond the basic 10 techniques that one would find in most Aikido and Ju-jutsu schools.) This allows a person to learn the gross motor skill with less discomfort.

3.) The use of a wrist grab is consistent with most introductory practice, but is usually phased out as a person moves higher into their guep ranks. No school should be expected to have Black Belts relying solely on wrist grabs but to move ahead to dealing with strikes, kicks, disarms, and transitions.

4.) My best guess is that this is about as far as any of the students will go in this particular school even though the clip indicates that this is merely the "basic" material.

FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I did think some of that stuff was clearly Akido myself. The first few are Chinese, especially the armbars they kept doing, but all the Lappel grabs are just too reminiscent of Akido to me.

[David Jamieson]

stepping into a waiting elbow is plain dumb from my perspective.

my main issue with the demo was that it is a poor methodology for training or understanding anything when you do it like that continually. first time just to show, after that if there is no reasonable resistance or chance, then there can be no reasonable development of the technique being taught.

that which we are taught, we learn by doing. (~Aristotle)

also, chin na can be taught from a perspective of getting out of wrist control situations etc etc. standing up, you will find it rare that anyone will ever go after your wrist unless :

a) you have a weapon in your hand and are close enough to be grabbed by the wrist

or

b) a cop is cuffing you, in which case, you will be clubbed for trying your chin na out. lol

[Shaolin Wookie]

stepping into a waiting elbow is plain dumb from my perspective.

my main issue with the demo was that it is a poor methodology for training or understanding anything when you do it like that continually. first time just to show, after that if there is no reasonable resistance or chance, then there can be no reasonable development of the technique being taught.

that which we are taught, we learn by doing. (~Aristotle)

also, chin na can be taught from a perspective of getting out of wrist control situations etc etc. standing up, you will find it rare that anyone will ever go after your wrist unless :

a) you have a weapon in your hand and are close enough to be grabbed by the wrist

or

b) a cop is cuffing you, in which case, you will be clubbed for trying your chin na out. lol

As was demonstrated by the weak chin-na escape of that 15 y.o. girl......

[Mr Punch]

That was really really terrible substandard aikido, with some bs fu strikes into the bargain.

In aiki you always step off line, you always go for kuzushi asap and you always strike as you do any first move. He doesn't put any hip power into it at all.

I know most people here think aiki is a joke, but even aiki is far better than this trash.

[xcakid]

Yep, these are not Chin Na. As the video tag says, they are levers.

ChinNa is practiced on the basic sense first to understand the mechanics. The easiest way to do this is via wrist, shoulder and lapel grabs. Once this has been perfected then the fighting application can start.

It is difficult to teach Chin Na effectively start off at a run. Meaning full speed punches to the face. So you teach it in a basic level then progress from there. If you break apart the applications of Lien Bu Chuan, Gung Li Chuan, and San Tien Chuan(classic LF forms) there are quite a few Chin Na move in there defending against a punch or a kick. Although most primary application taught are block/punch combos, the secondary applications would consist of a grab and twist after the punch.