What do you guys think of these apps?

[David Jamieson]

who just grabs your wrist like that ?

someone who wants to disarm you.

[kidswarrior]

Just thought I'd say that most of that is pretty much identical to early level hapkido that I took, though not very well done. For example, the arm bar theme (putting the fore arm into upper arm while locking the wrist) is common throughout most of the early hapkido material. I think it was called "kaluki" or something like that.

Rad, you stole one of my observations lol. Even remember the Korean name.

Argueably this is a "demo". As any demo on camera goes, the circles has to be large enough for anyone to see the technique being presented. I somewhat agreed with your evaluation of where the material could have come from and the intended audience is of a wider range. As for as the number of techniques and the validity of concepts presented, I think we have to bear in mind that this is labelled as "levers, basics and exercises". Now I think it is very clear that the teach has presented this as mostly one step drilling oriented. If we take the first few techniques presented, we see that he showed the small silk reeling wrist lock and a few of it's variation finishing holds (ie arm bar) and repeat to both sides. Clearly that's how he wanted it drilled. So in that sense, he's not making any false claim.

I believe that in the spirit of fairness, this is an excellent point. I know in Kung Fu San Soo, we practice slowly, and often in larger circles than in a real application (no time!).

And in conclusion (yes, this is my master's thesis ) some others made the point that no one really grabs the wrist like this, and while I agree that this is probably not a realistic scenario to the opening of a fight, it may occur in the middle when things are a bit muddled. I'd just like to say that (1) It's important to have some kind of counter in place, even if less than perfect, and (2) as Carl Cestari says, the grab is never the real attack, it's part of the setup. (Yeah, I know Cestari has his own problems, but I'll learn from any source I can ).

[Ben Gash]

who just grabs your wrist like that ?

Loads of people, if it's not a squared off fight. If it's escelated from an argument, you'll likely have your hands in front of you at chest level, so people are quite likely to grab you. If you've been rushed from the side and reflexively thrown up your nearside arm, again they're likely to grab it.

[Bruce W Sims]

who just grabs your wrist like that ?

Actually it happens a lot more times that we realize. The usual context is when a verbal altercation arises and a person attempts to disengage by moving away. The most common response is for a person to reach-out and grab, usually with some comment like "hey, I'm not done with you" or "where dya think YOU'RE going?"! FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[boshea]

Actually it happens a lot more times that we realize. The usual context is when a verbal altercation arises and a person attempts to disengage by moving away. The most common response is for a person to reach-out and grab, usually with some comment like "hey, I'm not done with you" or "where dya think YOU'RE going?"! FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Maybe for some, but from my own personal experience, no one has ever gone for a wrist grab in an attempt to start an altercation with me (or others around me). Possibly because I don't usually hold my hands out like that, but also most verbal altercations I've been in (or seen) didn't start out at close enough range. I suppose if you wanted someone to grab your wrist, say if you had an uber-wrist-grab-defense, you might want to hold it out there in the hopes that the attacker might fall for it.

It's just never come up in my experience, so I don't spend too much time thinking about defenses against that kind of attack.

[xcakid]

I think wrist grabs are more prevalent with Man V Woman altercations. Second would be a bouncer to patron or similar kinds of situation, typically coupled with a lapel or shoulder grab. Altercations with police would also involve these. Its pretty cool when you know Chin Na and a cop tries to aplly it on you.

[kwaichang]

What do you guys think of these apps? This is the question. I liked them. They are not Aikido. KC

[Bruce W Sims]

Maybe for some, but from my own personal experience, no one has ever gone for a wrist grab in an attempt to start an altercation with me (or others around me). Possibly because I don't usually hold my hands out like that, but also most verbal altercations I've been in (or seen) didn't start out at close enough range. I suppose if you wanted someone to grab your wrist, say if you had an uber-wrist-grab-defense, you might want to hold it out there in the hopes that the attacker might fall for it.

It's just never come up in my experience, so I don't spend too much time thinking about defenses against that kind of attack.

I should also add that wrist and clothing grabs got a real boost with the advent of Judo under Kano. The sport put quite a number of practitioners on the Japanese streets who wanted to see if the techniques they were learning would actually work. (Sound familiar?) In response, legal and enforcement people needed a way of responding to such individuals, resulting in individuals such as TAKEDA Sokaku (See: DAITO-RYU Aikijujutsu) making a living from traveling Japan teaching such material.

In today's modern world there are still cases where people will grab a wrist, arm, shirt, jacket etc etc as part and parcel of an altercation. Being able to handle these situations with dispatch is a worthy part of any MA. Even TCMA had packages of CHIN NA techniques appended to each "style" of CHUAN FA, though now such material has developed into a kind of MA all its own. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[David Jamieson]

if you ever sportively do full contact with all range fighting, you will find that once you get down at the ground, wrist control is a huge tactic and freeing yourself from it is a huge skill/attribute to have especially if you want to G&P the guy who is doing it to you.

I reiterate, that the videos show ineffective training that wil take you nowhere.

you can use that method to show the structure once or twice, but if you do not train the tech at full resistance, you are simply not training anything that is of any use and you are just as simply wasting your time if your goal is to actually learn and employ martial art.

[mantis108]

No wrist grabbing and hair pulling, eh? Think again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt0gM...elated&search=

must ... signing up ... (in Hommer's voice)

who care if it's useful? It's sure gonna be lots of fun!

Mantis108

[SevenStar]

I think joint locks are good for people in jobs where they need to restrain and immobilize the suspect to cuff them and make the arrest.

In cases like that you are often not dealing with someone attacking, but more trying to get away from you.

depends. IME, if you are to a point where you have to restrain them, they will be attakcing with other limbs while you are focusing on one. I have found that the best thing for me are restraints which control both arms, the body or the head... untrained people tend to panic when their breath is slowly being taken away, so choking is a beautiful thing. I prefer holds like the full nelson and the double wing to small joint locks for that reason. If I have to cuff someone, I will usually put them on the ground face first and keep them in place while someone else cuffs them. If I am solo and they need to be cuffed, I will choke them out first.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Good points.

[Lucas]

before any physical altercation happens is when you usually see a wrist grab, or somthing similar.

usually from someone not expecting a violent response to them grabbing you. usually from someone who feels superior. usually done while things may still be in an escalation stage. BEFORE you start fighting.

is an oppression kind of thing. you see guys do this to women. or to younger people.

its just good to know you can stop people from controlling you or oppressing you, even if its not in a fight.

not all wrist grabs will happen in a fight, or even escalate to the level of fighting.

if someone is attempting to control you in some way, and you can show them you are not easily controlled. chances are they may have a change of mind as to their actions toward you.