MMA...Multiple Attackers

[banditshaw]

Kind of like this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...039138&q=fight

LOL Since when is pro skater Mike Vallely an MMA guy?

I see the point though. This is how an MMA guy would handle it. But so would anyone else who had some ballz. The kids he was fighting were some punks anyway.

[jet64]

LOL


Look! Nonsense! How refreshing! You think karate is any better to fight multiple attackers? You think aiki is (and you think aiki is a striking art?!)?! For the thousandth time on this board, if you can't handle one person, you can't handle more than one and any trad MA that doesn't practice live hard contact is kidding himself.

FYI, it depends on how much you know about the style and the level of your training. The fact that you dont know shows how little you know about these styles. Also Aikido has strikes, its not only about catching and twisting like in demos.

[Mr Punch]

FYI, it depends on how much you know about the style and the level of your training. The fact that you dont know shows how little you know about these styles. Also Aikido has strikes, its not only about catching and twisting like in demos.

Karate, three years, ikkyu, full-contact no protection sparring and multiple-based drills (mostly bollocks). You?

Aikido 17 years tomorrow, shodan (stopped grading), plus koryu aikijutsu, plenty practised in free sparring against other arts, plenty of jiyuu randori and multiple-based drills, plenty of striking. You?

Approx number of real-life multiple-opponent situations involving someone/people getting a kicking of some variety: 10... prob more, can't be bothered counting. You?

I know aiki has strikes, but I wouldn't call it a striking art, and I wouldn't say either karate or aiki are any better based than any other art to deal with multiples.

[jet64]

Karate, three years, ikkyu, full-contact no protection sparring and multiple-based drills (mostly bollocks). You?

Aikido 17 years tomorrow, shodan (stopped grading), plus koryu aikijutsu, plenty practised in free sparring against other arts, plenty of jiyuu randori and multiple-based drills, plenty of striking. You?

Approx number of real-life multiple-opponent situations involving someone/people getting a kicking of some variety: 10... prob more, can't be bothered counting. You?

I know aiki has strikes, but I wouldn't call it a striking art, and I wouldn't say either karate or aiki are any better based than any other art to deal with multiples.

Karate - 27years since age 7
WC- 15years
Shaolin - 12years


come here, show what you got

[Mr Punch]

Karate - 27years since age 7
WC- 15years
Shaolin - 12years


come here, show what you got

D@mn, you're an ass. I'm still discussing the points in my last post and you're issuing a challenge to someone who lives in Tokyo...?!

I was only mentioning the ones relevant to the conversation, not entering into a p1ssing contest, but since you don't seem capable of a conversation I guess that's the end of that.

Shall we try another tack...? Which style of karate have you done since age 7 (not that most tots' karate is worth a ****, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and suppose that some of your basics carried on into your adult training without giving you a false sense of confidence and not much else) and would you like to describe the training you've done in any of your arts that suggests to you that

a) you could handle multiple attacks?
b) you could handle multiple attacks better than 'MMAers' (actually - you've already failed this one and your original assertion cos unless you can tell us you have grappling experience you don't know what you're talking about there either)?

Feel free to illustrate your accounts with any occasions you've used this training in multiple attack situations in the real world.

[Mr Punch]

FYI, it depends on how much you know about the style and the level of your training.

I do agree with this BTW.

As I said, I'm speaking from experience in aikido and some in 'MMA' grappling... which are two things you don't list but appear to have qualified yourself to talk about...

I'm not being confrontational, I just want to know how you're arriving at your conclusions.

[jet64]

I do agree with this BTW.

As I said, I'm speaking from experience in aikido and some in 'MMA' grappling... which are two things you don't list but appear to have qualified yourself to talk about...

I'm not being confrontational, I just want to know how you're arriving at your conclusions.

I understand martialarts deeper than most guys out there. I just hate when someone reply like bs w/o understanding first what is really meant in the post.\\

sometimes i want to teach guys some lesson. but location is always a problem.

Im always defending tma vs those proud grapplers who think they know everything about martialarts.

[Mr Punch]

I understand martialarts deeper than most guys out there. I just hate when someone reply like bs w/o understanding first what is really meant in the post.\\

sometimes i want to teach guys some lesson. but location is always a problem.

Im always defending tma vs those proud grapplers who think they know everything about martialarts.

Riiight.

I'm asking you to explain how you arrived at your conclusions (as in specific training examples), and you're telling me because you understand MA better than most people (preposterous unspecified theoretical claptrap)...

We've got plenty of time and and I've got plenty of patience. Try again. Prove to us how you attained your wisdom...!

[jet64]

MP,

Its complicated but i think the simplest way to explain it is thru drill set. fighting distance is no.1, know your position and the attackers. then upon engagement you aply the techniues you practise in your drills. when you engage with the nearest you know exactly where the next nearest attacker will be.

practise drills that quickly disable opponents. grabbing is also important coz you can use it to slam one attacker to another. If you will visit here, I can show you how its done.

[Mr Punch]

OK, I appreciate you taking the time to try an explanation.

First question: how CAN you know where your attackers are? In the drill it's doable with practice... I've done that myself in aiki, karate and wing chun, but outside it's not possible.

[jet64]

OK, I appreciate you taking the time to try an explanation.

First question: how CAN you know where your attackers are? In the drill it's doable with practice... I've done that myself in aiki, karate and wing chun, but outside it's not possible.

its a sense that you can develop thru practise, just like speed can be gained thru constant practise. it is something you cannot teach to student but you can teach how to develop it thru years.

fighting dist is most important coz at a given distance youll know what your opponent can do. so in case of multiple opponent you should engage w/ the one closest to you like those who can punch or kick you. but even in a case where there are 2 very near to you, one step or shift of stance can create safe distance allowing you to prepare or execute what you want to do.

im not good in words but i do hope you kinda get what im trying to explain.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Its not impossible to fight multiple attackers, just not very good idea, IF you can avoid it, more often than not people forget that if you are in that situation, running is probably not an option anymore.

In training, if you feel you want to have the best possible chance of surviving, you need to get a few guys ( 3 many be enough) and have them attack you full one, no real way around it, its the only way to see how you can fight off multiple attackers.
Do this on a regular basis and make sure they are really trying to get you,. not just punch and kick you, but grab you and throw you down and stomp a mud hole in your face.

[xcakid]

I don't know about the area you guys live in but where I grew up people got jumped a lot and even now in clubs and bars etc. they still do it's rarely a one on one fight. so how do mma guys deal w fighting more than one person

I have the same experience as you have. Most if not all of the fights I have witnessed or been in have been jump in/melee situation. Most start off as one on one, but turns into a free for all. Most if not all ended with weapons being drawn. Or someone getting bashed over the head with a champagne bottle while engaged with someone, that's a personal expereince one New years eve. It was the guy I was fighting's GF that hit me over the head with a bottle.

I believe in the mantra train the way you are going to fight and fight the way you train.

I will admit that aside from me sparring my buddy that does MMA and seeing matches live or on TV, I am no experience in it. Reason being I do not believe it has merit outside of the ring. In the ring I believe MMA is unbeatable compared to other arts. Outside of the ring, they are no problem at all. No martial is unbeatable outside of the ring. Hell I can just shoot you as you step out of your car. WTF is the big deal. I don't care if you're Matt Hughes, Matt Serra or Kimbo.

As its been said here, beating multiple attackers is close to impossible. 2 on 1, good possibility if you keep your footing. Stack your opponents and you get good shots in. 3 on 1, get ready to receive some hurtin', but I have seen people do it. 4 or great to one, this will have to be your hit and run scenario.

In all of the MMA classes I have watched and in talking with a lot of MMA guys, they do not train in this type of situations. Ironic isn't that they are called MIXED martial arts and they do nothing but train one on one striking.

I am in a mindset that it is better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. So I train in multiple attackers. Yes I may not be able to take them all on, but at least now I have the simulated experience and will give me the chance to evade. Which is what should be done in this situation. I train in weapons, arnis and firearms, so that I do not only rely on hand and feet.

Most MMA practioners will say that their training is far more realistic. Maybe. Depends on your background. I grew up where drive by shootings are daily occurances. I grew up and been witnessed to people getting jumped. I have been clubbing a lot where a fight will turn into a melee. So to me MMA is nothing but a ring SPORT, not real life fighting.

[xcakid]

In training, if you feel you want to have the best possible chance of surviving, you need to get a few guys ( 3 many be enough) and have them attack you full one, no real way around it, its the only way to see how you can fight off multiple attackers.
Do this on a regular basis and make sure they are really trying to get you,. not just punch and kick you, but grab you and throw you down and stomp a mud hole in your face.

At my last school we use to have what is called kill nights. Open to advanced students only. We would gear up, shin pads, chest protectors, head gear, open figner gloves. The idea is for the one person to start from the back of the school and make it to the fron door while the others will try to beat him up, tackle him, using full force.


We did suffer some broken knees, dislocated fingers, etc.
But overall a very eye opening workout.

[Bruce W Sims]

LOL

Right.

As someone who supposedly grew up in a dangerous place you should know that in many cases there's no avoiding it. I lived in a whole neighbourhood renowned for high violent crime. Just walking home from the pub at night could make you a target. I refuse to stay barricaded in my home in my hometown. But I wasn't looking for trouble. For example, one day my friends and I were walking home from the pub and someone drove a car at us (and mounted the pavement)... we had done absolutely nothing. One of my friends, a big arsy biker, chucked a bottle off their back window, and they came back with another car load, got out and legged us down the street. I was avoiding them as fast as I can, and believe me I can avoid pretty quickly! But, there was a young lady with us who didn't have running shoes on, so I had to go back... It could have been my funeral through absolutely no reckless behaviour of my own.

You could say I should have avoided the friendship of the big arsy biker, but he was a good friend and good back up in many situations we had... and as I said, he didn't actually initiate it, though his de-escalation skills needed some work.

Like I said, I don't see why I should have to give up my neighbourhood to that mentality. Running away makes you part of the problem. In the end I moved away for other reasons, but if I go back I intend to do some outreach work as I did to a small extent before I went.

Look! Nonsense! How refreshing! You think karate is any better to fight multiple attackers? You think aiki is (and you think aiki is a striking art?!)?! For the thousandth time on this board, if you can't handle one person, you can't handle more than one and any trad MA that doesn't practice live hard contact is kidding himself.

yeah but being jumped in means you have to fight back to prove you're no punk. if you just take the blows you're not worthy. at least where im from......and usually being jumped in was alot more bloodier than that. but that was like the late 70's and 80's..

I might be wrong but it sounds like there is much more testosterone involved here than first indicated. Just because a person chooses not to seek-out combative situations does not automatically mean that they go home and hide under the bed. Nor do I agree that people who don't fight back are automatically identified as "punks". Again, I may be wrong, but these sound like long-held philosophies for which you would now like to press MA training into service to promote and maintain.

Some time back I was accepted into the YONG SUL KWAN and had the honor and privelge of training under the third Dojunim for Hapkiyusool in Guemsan, SK. During that time he asked me how I thought that traditional Hapkiyusool would be accepted in the US. I told him that the Americans are a nation of "takers" who seem to justify their "taking" by simply paying tuition. In this way they excuse themselves from the obligations of preserving and passing to the next generation the art that they learned. I am getting the feeling that this thread would support my position. It seems that unless the practice under discussion does not allow people to have power then it has no real worth. I note that noone is talking about using their training to make streets safer, begin neighborhood watch groups, provide escort services and so forth. Instead, what I am reading is that people want to know if they will be able to go into bars when they choose.

Somehow this seems like a rather venial use of these skills, don't you think?

Best Wishes,

Bruce