Judo Opinion?

Sihing and GinSue,

I hope you two realize that you are alternately talking me into and out of trying judo with every other post!

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Peace.
Reverend Tim

[Sihing73]

ReverendTim,

My appoligies. By all means try Judo. Regardless of whether a sport or a combat art it is something which will be of beneift to your Wing Chun, IMHO. Judo will teach you the sensitivity which I mentioned as well as give you a firm grasp of the principles of balance. Both your own and your opponenets.

Forgive me for getting a little carried away. It just seems that today many try to make a case for things which are not always true. Some arts were designed specifically for combat whie others were not. This does not make any one better or worse than the other it just means you need to adjust your perspective. For example a .22 will kill you just as sure as a .45 but one is better designed for the job than the other. Both will work but one is designed for smaller game.

I will not post anymore on this subject in deference to not wishing to interfere with your training. I wish you the best and hope that you will explore Judo and any other art you wish. In the end it is your own decision which art suits you. Regardless of what I or others feel is the best you need to examine the arts in question and make your decision based on your own observations.

Also, GinSueDog, should you wish to discuss this further simply send me an email. As I said I am not trying to attack your position but most documentation would seem to indicate that Judo was designed for sport. I am open to researching this issue further, despite the fact that I am stubborn at times [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] If you wish to deiscuss this simply send me an email and we can continue.

Peace,

Dave

[GinSueDog]

Sihing73,
I did not feel attacked in anyway, I do enjoy a good debate. I may just take you up on your offer and continue the debate by email, lates.-ED

Boys, boys, boys!

I was enjoying the debate...I was just makin' a joke! Please continue...I'm learnin' a lot just lurking.

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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Peace.
Reverend Tim

[Ford Prefect]

There are writings on Judo by Kano that have been published. Why don't you check there? It's pretty clear that he didn't intend it to be the sport that it is today.

[Sihing73]

I had not intended to respond as per my earlier post but there is no email for Ford Perfect.

Ford,

I would like someclarification. Please provide the titles or the writtings you are referring to. I would be interested in researching them deeper since everything I have seen would indicate a different view.

BTW, have you ever studied Judo or is this all secondhand information? Not an attack just curiousity.

Peace,

Dave
Please feel free to email me off list as I do not want to continue this debate for reasons already posted, at least not here. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

ReverendTim, I hope things are progressing well for you.

[Sihing73]

Hey,
I don't know what happened but out of curiousity I checked my own profile and nothing is there. Must have been due to the server problems. I will rectify this shortly. In the meantime anyone wishing to email me can reach me at:
dmcknight@home.com or Sihing73@Juno.com

Peace,

Dave

[Longquan]

Sihing-- your basically right... but Judo has become more sport (randori) focused than Kano originally intended. My understanding is that Kano intended for Judoka to mutually benefit from the practice of Judo for building health and character--similar intent as the practice of Aikido, but not as "spiritual."

GinSueDog,
It sounds like your Judo history is from a BJJ source. I don't recall of ever hearing of Maeda as being a Kodokan Judo student--in fact I remember that he possibly studied a contempory (of Judo) jujutsu style that emphasized groundwork hence BJJ.

Judo is great.

If anyone wants references for the above info, let me know--it'll take a few days.

[Ford Prefect]

Sihing,

Wierd. E-mail address should've been there. Let me know if you don't get me my mail.

Longquan,

The Brazil Judo Federation traces it's lineage back to Maeda as well. The Gracie's just modified Kodokan ne waza. I'm not taking anything away from the Gracie's because they obviously did an incredible job with their modifications. Judo wasn't always so lopsided in it's emphasis of standing techniques vs. ground techniques.

Hey, I went to my first judo class tonight!

I didn't get to work out, because the guy who runs the club's website had a different opinion on what constituted appropriate trial-lesson clothing than the instructor, but I watched, and really liked what I saw. They spent lots of time on groundwork, but plenty of time on throws and 'fit-ins.'

Next week, I'll have me a gi and start getting tossed around. The instructor was very psyched about seeing how all the wing chun chi sao affected my ability to avoid getting grabbed.

Thanks for all the info, y'all!

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Peace.
Reverend Tim

[JohnnyW]

Hi Reverend Tim,
For an interesting perspective on your judo question please visit:

http://hometown.aol.com/wuweinwfla/index.htm

Johnny W.

Johnny W,

Very interesting website. Thanks for the tip!

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Peace.
Reverend Tim

[MaFuYee]

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[This message has been edited by MaFuYee (edited 06-23-2000).]

[origenx]

I heard that one of wing chun's weak points is that it particularly vulnerable to the throwing arts, such as judo. I guess cuz you're working in the mid/close range alot. Anyone heard or seen this to be true?

[Sihing73]

origenx,

Not sure that I would agree that Wing Chu has a weakness as regards throwing arts. If any the weakness would perhaps be fighting once on the ground itself. Although, there are methods to deal with this situation as well.

Judo is a wonderful art and teaches one many things about balance. In order to perform a throw one must first disrupt the other persons balance. This can lead to a great understanding of the body and also give one great sensitivity. Wing Chun teaches one the same things through Chi Sau. Chi Sau is not just rolling your arms around and learning how to feel force from your opponents arms. It is about learning to feel and react to various types of energy. If trained properly you will be able to sense your opponenets energy and react to it. A good Chi Sau/Wing Chun persons will be able to draw an opponenet in or side to side or back based on the energy being given by the other person. In doing so he will be able to disrupt their balance and perform throws of his own. Also there is an exercise called Chi Gerk where one learns to perform Chi Sau with the legs. This ability can come in very handy in countering throws [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Judo is an excellent art and will add many things to ones Wing Chun. It would be unfair to state Wing Chun or Judo, or any other art, were superior. Wing Chun specializes in close range fighting and that is where one wants to be when using it, still one can fight at various ranges effectiviely using the same art. Judo also specializes in very close range as well, many of the throws, particularily Hip throws require body contact to be done effectively. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

neither is better or worse and neither has a specific weakness related to the other style.

Peace,

Dave